Excellent Advice. Just One Thing . . .

[Poker Cat]

Learning how to learn is certainly worthwhile.
Does it take a four years and a $125,000 college education?

The boundless lauding of the institution of college is more religion than science. Frequently I hear people make a list of worthwhile goals -- learning how to learn, etc. And then jump to the conclusion that college is the best or only way to accomplish those goals. Where is the evidence? I know, I know. Studies show college grads make more money. But that's no proof of causality -- college could simply be a marker for smarter, more ambitious people.

I agree that "learning how to learn" is a critical skill. I also think acquiring it in college is way too late. I certainly didn't learn it there. Poker helped. As Mason wrote in an article, students who wish to excel at poker must spend a lot of time studying and thinking about the game. I found out what the right books were, read them, played, made mistakes, thought about them, reread passages, played some more. I stopped Mason and others occassionally at the Bike and asked a question. College did not teach me this process. It may have taught you, but there are other paths.

As for the self-justifying prof who recommends an Ivy League college for the connections it will get you, I find that offensive. If I want to get a position I haven't earned through cronyism, I'll bribe a politician. They're cheaper.

In any case, I reiterate that my entire rant amounts to no more than a nitpick on Ed's article, which stresses financial discipline. Without it, no amount of income will make you successful.

And that, I am sure, no college can teach you.

[Sniper]

Hi Cat,

There are many different ways to learn the life skills necessary to succeed.

I also strongly believe that the most successful people learn far more out of college than they do while in college.

My point is, that suggesting to people that don't already understand HOW to be successful, that they don't need to go to college, is very bad advice.

Those that can be successful without college already know it, and can make an informed decision for themselves.

[TheGame1020]

I give you credit Cat to post something like this. It seems posters on this forum seem to slam the game that we all love more than it deserves. What if the college student hates school, he hates going to class, and he will do nothing but blow his parents money. Then what?? Should he stay in school and do nothing, NO.

What if he cannot be convinced that school is the right path and choses to [censored] off and not go. He enjoys poker and choses that path. "Just go to school, finish college." is what they all say. But guess what, I know alot of people who went to college and make 50k their whole life and HATE their jobs. Sure not everyone hates their jobs, but A LOT do.

As Ed has even said be [censored] resposible about it though, save your money. Invest it put it away, don't spend money on tons of materialist [censored].

[gildwulf]

I can't believe a John Mayer song was used as evidence to support an argument.

[ThaHero]

[ QUOTE ]
I give you credit Cat to post something like this. It seems posters on this forum seem to slam the game that we all love more than it deserves. What if the college student hates school, he hates going to class, and he will do nothing but blow his parents money. Then what?? Should he stay in school and do nothing, NO.

What if he cannot be convinced that school is the right path and choses to [censored] off and not go. He enjoys poker and choses that path. "Just go to school, finish college." is what they all say. But guess what, I know alot of people who went to college and make 50k their whole life and HATE their jobs. Sure not everyone hates their jobs, but A LOT do.

As Ed has even said be [censored] resposible about it though, save your money. Invest it put it away, don't spend money on tons of materialist [censored].

[/ QUOTE ]

I really liked Sniper and Game's post on the issue. They really hit the nail on the head(for my situation anyway).

I'm 21. I don't know how much money I wasted in college, but it was a lot. I wasted money all throughout my academic life, really. I was always capable of A's, but only got C's and B's because other things interested me. Frankly, I found school boring, and a chore. According to my teachers I'm very intelligent, I just don't put forth the effort.

Many times I tried to buckle up and put forth my strongest effort. It would last for about a week, and then I'd fall back into my own little world. I used to spend whole days in the library on campus, but none of it was spent studying really. Most of the time I was reading stuff that interested me.

Seeing that I could educate myself, I dropped out. I was fully confident I could make money on my own without a degree. Poker wasn't even in the picture. I realized that college was EXTREMELY -EV for me, as it would probably take me years upon years to finish(if I ever did). I'm also a twin, so our expenses were double. Enter the Governator, and our expenses are quadrupled. We can no longer afford it without going into major debt...see ya!

I still contemplate going to community college and getting an Associate's Degree just because I know my mom would be proud. I have absolutely no desire to get a 4 year degree. I spent 3 years in college and barely have the amount of units of half that time.

I didn't quit college to go pro. I quit because I knew most of my life that school wasn't for me, and I was wasting my time. I now plan to use poker as a stepping stone to other things, but there's a lot of other moves I'm making as well, so yeah, I have a Plan B and it doesn't include a college degree. Actually, poker might not even be Plan A.

Dunno what the point of my post was. I guess it was just to point out that college isn't the ONLY way to get to wherever it is you want to go. I see college educated adults all the time that are older than me and are miserable. I certainly don't want to end up like them.

[Rick H]

Just a couple thoughts from a geezer:

I got a degree some fifteen years later than most. I got it because I found out that I did not know everything (and I still acknowledge this fact).

My work-life is technical, my degree is in business. Not much of the coursework related to my job. I find that I did not waste my time learning such irrelevant material. I use a little of that knowledge most every day.

Education, like everything else in life, is worth as much as you want it to be worth. As Earl Nightingale once said, "you always get what you settle for".

My advice would be to get as much education as you are willing to work at.

One last point, I find it quite ironic that folks who would slam anyone here for posting advice based on a sample size of 1 ( or even 10). I would suggest anyone thinking of quitting college research the value of a degree in their chosen field using the same statistical analysis as they would use in evaluating a poker hand. There are plenty of statistics available showing how incomes increase in relation to the years of education obtained.

[AceHiStation]

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How many Hummers do you have? I can assure you that you will get many more in college.

[/ QUOTE ]

How noones given you credit for this yet is beyond me? Well done, sir.


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I can't believe a John Mayer song was used as evidence to support an argument.

[/ QUOTE ]

How it took that long for someone to make that comment is also beyond me. I was reading every word of the OP until I got to the John Mayer quote, and immediately stopped reading that post and moved to the replies.

the great "John Mayer" has also said (though not in a song) that [he] "...had to work so hard and so long to be
able to be doing what he really want -ed/-s to be doing for a living." [And posed the question:] "Why would you ever want to trade in
what you really want to do for a living for something that the odds were in favor of?"

plus he's "dreamy" and can play a mean gee-tar

And so, I must assert that any reference to John Mayer adds mad credibility to a post in my book.

[ThaHero]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
How many Hummers do you have? I can assure you that you will get many more in college.

[/ QUOTE ]

How noones given you credit for this yet is beyond me? Well done, sir.

[/ QUOTE ]

I meant to say something, but after reading allll the replies I totally forgot about it lol. I really got a kick out of it though, and I agree 100%

[Poker Cat]

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I can't believe a John Mayer song was used as evidence to support an argument.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not my first choice either. But a quick check of Abomination and Necrophobic lyrics turned up nothing apt.