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#51
11-17-2005, 07:44 AM
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Re: Can someone who is 30/20 post a starting hand chart?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I would love it if you could host the excel file! What about your limping in early position btw. Seems awfully easy to play against you should you choose to limp. I think you need some more limping hands like A10,KJ or just to drop it. [/ QUOTE ] limping is for suckers. so are charts. [/ QUOTE ] The same could be said for blanket statments like yours. I imagine it was said in jest, so whatever...Im not making the chart for me, just to see if I could do it to help some ppl. The image posted above was just an early draft. I have since worked on it more and its coming along much better...anyway the excel file also has a decent BB defense mapped out for general situations. But ppl just starting out in 6max will benefit imo. Plus its been intresting to force yourself to map out a preflop game for general situations. (basically I started w/ MBenhoes chart, compared it to two others and King Yaos shorthanded opening standards (from an old 2+2 post of his)...then mixed with my ideas to create what I think is a superior starting hand chart) Anyway I will start a new thread soon as soon as I get it into presentable form so it can be critiqued. 
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#52
11-17-2005, 11:03 AM
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Re: Can someone who is 30/20 post a starting hand chart?
heya,
i like your chart. lol, you seem to use the same abbreviatoins i did for many actions that "depend". i'm refering to the first version of that chart that a few guys from thisisthenuts are using like RL, RT, LR... just a coincidence? http://www.thisisthenuts.com/forum/s...;MessageID=269 my latest version includes a few more hands as i'm starting to loosen up in the blinds: http://www.mrfixitonline.com/readPos...tingId=1701869 i notice our general preflop gameplan is very similar. i'm curious, what are your vpip, pfr, asb, fbb, fsb?
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#53
11-17-2005, 11:11 AM
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Re: Can someone who is 30/20 post a starting hand chart?
Actually wait until u see my updated chart. IT pushes some pretty marginal stuff. What I posted was pretty rough draftish. Anyway, friend of mine who plays 150/300 for a living (also one of the best shorthaned players I know)...helped me bring the quality up even further.
Not sure if it will be for everyone but its about as close as u can get to how I play preflop. I also included basic BB defense as well. I will have it up later.
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#54
11-17-2005, 11:25 AM
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Re: Can someone who is 30/20 post a starting hand chart?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I would love it if you could host the excel file! What about your limping in early position btw. Seems awfully easy to play against you should you choose to limp. I think you need some more limping hands like A10,KJ or just to drop it. [/ QUOTE ] limping is for suckers. so are charts. [/ QUOTE ] And that chart sucks IMO. Raising 55 UTG? Are you kidding... (And I have a PFR of 22) Edit: I don't mean this as a pesonal attack, I just think charts in general are BS. No successful player I know uses a chart. It's really good for people to not even use them when starting out because you learn SO much faster by just thinking things through yourself.
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#55
11-17-2005, 11:39 AM
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Re: Can someone who is 30/20 post a starting hand chart?
Like Jeff W said.
If you need a chart to play, you shouldn't be playing 30/20. 6 max is far too situational for a chart to be anything but basic training wheels in the first two weeks. If you can't play and adapt using your own reasoning, you're screwed.
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#56
11-17-2005, 11:42 AM
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Re: Can someone who is 30/20 post a starting hand chart?
[ QUOTE ]
Like Jeff W said. If you need a chart to play, you shouldn't be playing 30/20. 6 max is far too situational for a chart to be anything but basic training wheels in the first two weeks. If you can't play and adapt using your own reasoning, you're screwed. [/ QUOTE ] I agree that you should definetly not be playing off a chart, but I do think looking at how other people play can be helpful. If a good player is playing 50% more hands than you, you can at least begin to see where you might loosen up. I am not saying you should go all the way, but at least add in a few of the hands that might be along the way (for example, if someone plays down to A2 in a somewhat marginal situation, you may decide to play only down to A7, or something like that).
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#57
11-17-2005, 11:51 AM
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Re: Can someone who is 30/20 post a starting hand chart?
Wow lot of animosity towards charts and ppl starting out who use them. I know we dont need them, but bashing ppl that do is pretty low. The only reason I decided to give it a try is because a freind of mine starting out asked. I mean I know its the classy thing to do calling some dude using Ed Millers charts a loser, but seriously.
As far as my chart even in that rough form its far better than anything that has been around in here, and as far as 55 that was supposed to apply to 66. But in certain game conditions I will limp in loose-passive tables and raise pretty tight tables (rare, but sometimes does happen)...just because proper strategy most of the time in 6max is raise or fold, it doesnt mean u can never ever do something different. I mean, godforbid the poker police ever forgive u for rarely open completing your sb once in a while when its folded to u.
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#58
11-17-2005, 12:02 PM
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Re: Can someone who is 30/20 post a starting hand chart?
I use a chart and I also raise 55 3 off the button (maybe I should check my EV there, I do know i make money with all pairs down to 22, because i just checked that last night, but not sure if 55 3 off the button is a winner or loser, of course i wont have any sample to speak of for that. I dont stick with the chart too much, but its a great baseline.
Actually deciding the where and why of cutting off at certain hand points is a very very useful exercise. I will have to look at PT tonight, cause I dont know the numbers from memory filtering for 5-6 handed, but I do know I am about 31/21 over 100k hands 50/100 and higher with average players per hand of 5.4, but that included a number of HU hands and even some full table play, though not much. I'm not going to post the chart, sorry, too much to explain it, and using it without explanation probably not all that useful anyways.
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#60
11-17-2005, 12:11 PM
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Re: Can someone who is 30/20 post a starting hand chart?
Nice post, Stox. Another reason I decided to make a chart from scratch was kind of a way to test my preflop knowledge...Im good at the game especially postflop, so its weird that I always felt I could improve on my preflop area some. Im laggy in the fact that I usually play 4handed or less so when I play with more ppl that carries over (I hate folding any hand i dont have to - I try to push as much edge as possible) and so I did this as an excercise. Thought I was going to hate it, but I had a blast thinking it through.
My chart now is way better than what was posted and for the most part, 2 good 50/100+ players also agree with it (not twoplustwoers - just friends in real life). We went over it for kicks and included some marginal stuff that came pretty close to my usual preflop strategy.
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