Now or later?

[PokerBob]

[ QUOTE ]
Easy one. Go ahead and raise any turn card.



[/ QUOTE ]

so later?

[Jeffage]

Yes. This pot is already big and you aren't driving anyone out on the flop (particularly with a flush draw). I would lay the hammer down on the turn...who knows, if it comes low and the solid player has AA he may 3-bet the turn for you.

Jeff

Later. Just call and raise the turn, because the bad limpers arent throwing the flush draw away anyways. They might however, much for two BB on the turn if they miss. Besides, you've got the current nuts, you can slowplay a little here, bob.

[obsidian]

I all call and pop the turn. You aren't pushing out any draws. Make them pay more. The turn is unfortunate although not as unfortunate as a K.

[Hamlet]

I tend to raise this now. I think there are more hands that give you action on the flop than the turn. I tend to play flush draws fast on the flop as well. This allows me to jam the flop and get action all the way against 1-pair hands.

[DcifrThs]

i dont see what the dilema here is. drawful board with many players, you have a monster, but a vulnerable hand relatively speaking. you have all kinds of redraws.

3bet.

3bet.

Barron

[DcifrThs]

[ QUOTE ]
Turn card here is going to be an undercard to the jack 75% of the time. So that's an argument in favor of later. Hero having top set is an argument in favor of now. The two diamond is an argument in favor of now.

In general, I prefer to do everything I can to win a pot rather than win an extra bet or two. So my third paragraph, for me, is an argument in favor of waiting.

The 4th pargraph is an argument in favor of waiting. That is, villain's check-raise is more likely a real hand because hero 3-bet pre-flop. Thus he's more likely to follow through with a turn bet.

So it's a close decision I think and I lean in favor of waiting.

[/ QUOTE ]

you are neglecting to take into account the possibility of the flop being capped AND villian leads turn.

or flop being capped but wont be if you call. AND the possility it WOULD have been capped if you 3 bet and the turn comes bad costing you both the flop bets AND extra bets on the turn from the c'rer slowing down.

Barron

[elindauer]

[ QUOTE ]
In a similar hand a couple of years ago Dynasty said something along the lines of surely you would 3-bet A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]? Why not top set?

[/ QUOTE ]

In both cases, you have an immediate opportunity to gain value by raising. With the flush draw though, there is an excellent chance that you will not be nearly as excited about raising the turn. Even worse, the times you are still happy to raise, a major scare card has just hit the board, likely limiting your action. With top set, it's much more likely that, should you choose to pass on your raise now, you will be rewarded with an opportunity to raise on the next street in a spot where your opponents may be willing to give you some action.

Further, with the draw, you are happy to have your opponents check to you on the turn, sight unseen. With the nuts, you'd prefer to have lots of action on the turn when it gets to you.

You raise the draw because you want free cards and because this may be the only opportunity you have to raise this hand for value. With top set, both of these considerations are diminshed, so it's not as clear that you should 3-bet, although you should still 3-bet a lot.

-Eric

[elindauer]

When making this decision, I consider two things:

1. Hand protection: Are there hands that my opponents are likely to hold that I want to fold, that are correct to call for 2 on the flop, but not 2 on the turn?

In this case, I answer no. So I move on to question #2.

2. Value: Can I get more money in a pot I expect to win by waiting for the turn?

In this case, the answer is also no. I note that the raiser may well be raising a draw for value, that an overcard or flush card can hit to scare him, and that my turn raise faces the field with two cold. All bad news for getting more money in the pot.


Raise now.

Good luck.
Eric

[MarkSummers]

If there was only the two of you, you could waitand pop him on the turn. Even then, you might want to 3 bet. With the two other players who are in though, this becomes a standard 3 bet. You have the nuts but you are vulnerable. Don't let them get a cheap opportunity at a diamond.

This pot is huge and you need to focus on winning it, not gaining an extra bet on the turn. In order to do this, you must 3 bet the flop.