The Root of All Evil?

[benkahuna]

The bible seeks to avoid the blame. The root of all evil is the idea of evil. An idea most commonly promulgated by the Bible.

I much prefer the Santeria concept of mojo, darkness and self-serving actions not tainted by value judgements.

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I think poor people have no shot at getting to heaven (assuming heaven is a tough place to get into). Poor people have everything to gain by being Christ-like. Rich people don't. If a rich person gives up his own happiness and fulfillness by selling all that he owns to help the poor, he is doing by far more than a poor person could. Therefore, only a rich person has a shot of getting into heaven.

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I think there is a good chance this was not very serious, but anyway...

Luke 21
The Widow's Offering
1As he looked up, Jesus saw the rich putting their gifts into the temple treasury. 2He also saw a poor widow put in two very small copper coins.[a] 3"I tell you the truth," he said, "this poor widow has put in more than all the others. 4All these people gave their gifts out of their wealth; but she out of her poverty put in all she had to live on."

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Secondly, with this logic, couldn't you argue that you're not supposed to really like ANYTHING? If I love another person, be it my girlfriend, wife, child, parent, whatever, isn't that a false idol?

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That wasn't what I was trying to say (although it may have been what I did say).
There is a need to distinguish between love and worship. And also between love for money and love for people. Love for a person is characterized by selfless giving towards the object of one's love, IMO. Love of money refers to the desire to accumulate wealth. If the wealth is accumulated for the express purpose of giving it to poor people or something like that, then there was never really any love of money, money was simply a means to an end. It is the attitude that accumulating wealth is an end in itself that is dangerous and is being warned against in this passage, I think.

But I really just wanted to clarify that loving another person is definitly not idolatry. There are lots of ways to explain it but basically a primary way you can love god is through the way you love other people (your wife, sister, kids...even your 'enemies'). However, you don't worship these people; they have flaws. You love them in spite of their flaws because you worship God, who is the model of perfect love.

Matthew 25
31"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. 32All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
34"Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'

37"Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'

40"The King will reply, <font color="blue">'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'
</font>
41"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'

44"They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'

45"He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'

[hmkpoker]

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Luke 21
The Widow's Offering
1As he looked up, Jesus saw the rich putting their gifts into the temple treasury. 2He also saw a poor widow put in two very small copper coins.[a] 3"I tell you the truth," he said, "this poor widow has put in more than all the others. 4All these people gave their gifts out of their wealth; but she out of her poverty put in all she had to live on."

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I don't agree with Jesus' point of view. The rich have more to lose than the old woman's two copper coins. Two copper coins, while it is 100% of what she has, is still two copper coins; just as easily gained, and just as easily lost. Let's say you're a poor college kid with a few hundred bucks in your checking. Donating all of it to charity isn't really that big of a deal; two weeks of work will put you right back to where you were. However, if you go on to graduate, own a successful business, and in twenty years accumulate a few pieces of property, a nice portfolio, and a couple million saved up, now giving all you have is a much, much bigger deal.

Jesus doesn't seem to consider this concept.

This concept didn't exist for the people jesus was talking about. He preached strongly against the prevailing social order because it made it impossible for certain groups of people (like widows) to ever make a decent life for themselves. The analgous person in today's society is not a 'poor' college student, it is a starving widow in somolia.

Jesus considered the concept in Mathew here:

Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

22But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.

[hmkpoker]

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This concept didn't exist for the people jesus was talking about. He preached strongly against the prevailing social order because it made it impossible for certain groups of people (like widows) to ever make a decent life for themselves. The analgous person in today's society is not a 'poor' college student, it is a starving widow in somolia.

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If this is the case, then Luke 21 is non sequitur. Commending a poor person for giving away all she has perpetuates her inability to make a living.

Also, my initial argument still stands. Giving all you have is not terribly meaningful if you have nothing to give.

[hmkpoker]

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Jesus considered the concept in Mathew here:

Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

22But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.

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No. Jesus acknowledges that it is harder for a rich person to enter the kingdom of heaven, here because they have more to give. A large amount from a rich person is still a large amount. All of a rich man's savings should be substantially more (in terms of spiritual giving value) than a poor woman's two cents. These two passages are logically inconsistent.

Also, they are both inconsistent with Jesus' supposed attempt to help the poor gain a better life for themselves. Jesus promises perfection (Mat 19:21) with going broke as a prerequisite. Economically, this is a horrible lesson.

[Piz0wn0reD!!!!!!]

Although your implication that had the woman kept the copper coins for herself she would have improved her chances of "making a living" indicates that you don't really understand the situation of a widow in Jesus's time (women had no rights, they were defined by their husband. A widow has no husband, she is [censored])...I simply disagree that "Giving all you have is not terribly meaningful if you have nothing to give." I think it is incredibly meaningful (to be fair, so is giving all you have when you have lots to give).