Pat Straight in a Pot-Limit Draw Tournament

[Tom Bayes]

I just told the story about a correct laydown I made with a pat 10-high straight against an extremely tight player (who had a pat flush) in the big Online Draw Advice thread. I'm starting this thread to describe another situation where I busted out of a draw tournament with a pat straight.

I don't have the hand history available, so stack sizes are approximate. It is very early in the tournament and the blinds are not yet an issue. This was a 10 Euro buy-in pot-limit draw MTT at 24hPoker. The player to my immediate right is "Ilmaveivi", a Finnish player who in my opinion is one of the best draw players at the site-tricky and aggressive and not the player I wanted seated next to me. Ilmaveive has the big stack after winning a large pot off another good player and has ~4000 chips. I probably have ~1600 at this point.

The hand in question, Ilma is the SB and I'm the BB. One player limps in, Ilma completes. I have KQJTx and check. Ilma and I both draw 1 and limper draws three. I draw the ace and now have an ace-high straight. Ilma bets the pot, I raise the minimum, limper folds, Ilma reraises and I call, putting myself all-in. Ilma has the flush and I'm out.

So, feedback: Who thinks that I should just call, who thinks the raise was fine and I had to go broke, anyone think I should fold? (If I just call I'm well below average stack but I'm not totally crippled).

[bigpooch]

You definitely have a call here and there is no doubt about
it. Your opponent would have likely raised before the draw
with two pair a small amount just to attempt to get heads
up with the limper in which case it is very likely he has a
draw that he completed. Also, straight draws are very
troublesome hands, especially in PL and you often see them
beaten by better complete hands after the draw. A raise of
any amount will clearly be -EV plus your opponent may not be
playing any straight draw (for example, he may muck small
straight draws since they have almost no chance of winning
by pairing although arguably he may play a hand like AKQJ).

Also, in this case, there is a slight chance if the limper
is a bad player that he may overcall with trips.

[Tom Bayes]

Thanks for the input. This is pretty much what I thought after it was over and I should not have gone broke on that hand. I tend to hate straight draws in pot-limit and avoid them unless they are free or very cheap. My hand was a textbook case of the inherent weakness of straight draws-you are dead if someone hits a better draw and you aren't good enough to get away from your hand.

Flush draws (particularly to the ace-high flush) are much more attractive. I occasionally like to open-raise pre-draw with a strong flush draw in good position against tight players in the blinds. I try to raise just like I would if I had any hand good enough to open with-a big pair or two pair or trips. You have multiple ways to win: you can steal the blinds (which can be significant in the latter stages of a tourney), you can bluff post-draw (very opponent-dependent), you can pair up the ace (or another big card) and sometimes that's enough, or you can actually make the flush.

[Tom Bayes]

Wow, what a stupid title for my own thread. In the tourney hand in question, I did not have a pat straight, but picked it up post-draw.

I did make the cardinal sin of getting excited when I hit my draw and failed to consider what the opponent probably was holding. Oh well, another poker lesson learned the hard way.

[DOMIT]

FWIW, I agree, this is a call.. not a raise.