overcards flush draw... turn call ??

element00 · #1 10-18-2005, 01:45 AM

I'm thinking pot odds say yes? What do you guys think.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 4 handed) converter

Button ($31.50)
Hero ($27.65)
BB ($30.95)
UTG ($20.25)

Preflop: Hero is SB with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. Hero posts a blind of $0.10.
UTG calls $0.25, Button calls $0.25, Hero (poster) raises to $1.9, 1 fold, UTG calls $1.75, Button folds.

Flop: ($4.50) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $4, UTG raises to $8, Hero calls $4.

Turn: ($20.50) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Hero calls $10.25.

River: ($30.75) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)

Final Pot: $30.75

#2 10-18-2005, 01:46 AM

Why not push the turn instead of calling? Or the flop.

But ya, looks like you're getting a razor thin 3:1 here, seems fine if you think overcards are good a decent %.

element00 · #3 10-18-2005, 01:47 AM

Yeah I mean if I'm going to call an all in on the turn regardless I might as well huh?

#4 10-18-2005, 01:48 AM

Ya, might as well get some folding equity in addition to your pretty big draw. Turns it from a marginal call to a decent +EV move.

element00 · #5 10-18-2005, 01:50 AM

But the thing is, I probably wouldn't have called the all in, if I didn't pick up the questionable straight outs?

#6 10-18-2005, 01:53 AM

True, I'm just saying once you get to the turn (calling the flop seems just fine, as does pushing all in I'd imagine), if you're planning on calling a bet might as well bet it yourself.

Of course if I'm wrong here I'd love some input.

creamdog · #7 10-18-2005, 02:11 AM

I like a push on the flop here, he obviously does not have the nuts because you have the A. So he should be able to fold to that quite easily, even with the K high flush. he may have reraised you with a straight flush draw, or the made flush, in which case the push could make him fold these cards and you wont have to hope to hit. And if they do call, you are still 20-30% to win. Pushing the turn might be a good play too, depending on the villain, if you think he will fold a flush here then it is THE play but if he is going to call you regardless then the check is better, he may check behind and give you a free card. I read the villain to have a made flush so on the turn you have only 7 hearts to hit, the straight and the overs are no good, so you should be getting 6.5 to 1 to call. the immediate odds are only 3 -1 and there are no implied odds because he is all in so you should not call this; unless for some reason, based on previous hands you are relatively certain he doesn't have a flush, because then you have 12 outs and are getting the odds to call because your straight is good and the extra hearts are good now, as well as possible A or K. But I think this was a bad call on the turn.

element00 · #8 10-18-2005, 02:13 AM

and how do you know he doesn't have a set or two pair? [ QUOTE ]
obviously does not have the nuts because you have the A. So he should be able to fold to that quite easily, even with the K high flush.

[/ QUOTE ]

folding king high flush are you kidding? hell even folding any made flush at $25's i just don't see it. horrible line of thinking.

creamdog · #9 10-18-2005, 11:49 AM

Depending on my read of the player, and what he has seen me do I would easily fold the K high flush there. There is no background info here so I dont know the player. If he is a calling station then you are right, a push is not the play, but if he is a smart player, and knows that there is a fold button, and it is functional, then you can push.

creamdog · #10 10-18-2005, 11:51 AM

And he should definately be able to fold something like a 9 high flush.