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  #1  
Old 11-27-2005, 07:48 AM
GoblinMason (Craig) GoblinMason (Craig) is offline
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Location: Urbana, IL (UIUC)
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Default Stepping down and admitting defeat

Maybe this should go in BBV, but I think it may have some content so I'm posting it here. Besides, I'm actually optimistic for the future, notice the icon I chose. (Mods if it should, feel free to move and my apologies.)

After taking the worst downswing I've yet to experience (about 12k+ of my used to be 35k+ roll), It's tought me some lessons that I should've already known. I know that I've posted on many occasions that you should expect to run worse than you ever have, but I've never felt how true it is until now.

I've taken bad swings many times and have always battled back. I've also had the thought "what if I don't run good again after losing 200BBs, that would really suck." Well it can happen, and it does.


Now, I've always been of the opinion that if you take a really really bad swing you probably aren't playing that great. This may be the case for me, but I can tell you one thing: I wasn't playing any worse in the last 6-7k hands than I was the 10s of thousands before them. I think the strongest part of my game is keeping level-headed and not tilting. The part I constantly doubt is my strategy. I wasn't a proven winner in the games I was playing (mostly 20/40) for more than 20k hands, but they didn't seem all that much tougher than the 10/20 which I know I beat for a long time. It really could be that I'm not a winner in those games and the long run has caught up to me. Anyway, analyzing why I had this downswing isn't the point of this thread.

The point is, I can't take swings like this. At least, not yet. I've started to doubt that I'm a winner in some of these games, and they are not the place to be doubting yourself. I think one thing that really frustrates me about poker, is when I doubt that I'm a winner. One thing that I would love, is if I KNEW I was crushing or at least beating a game. Since I need a break from these swings and the doubt, I'm stepping down. I absolutely know that I can beat any 3/6 or 5/10 game online and still make a good hourly after bonus and rakeback. So that's what I'm going to do. The swings there will seem like pebbles in the road after what I've ran into at 20/40.

It actually is a great feeling to know what I'm looking forward to in the comming months from poker. I'm going to have to put in a ton of hands to get the earn I want, but I know that I won't post another -10k month anytime soon.

I know, my epeen is way smaller now that I get to post in SSSH instead of MHSH, but bring on the 200BB downswings, I will battle back in one night! So lookout you 3/6 grinding tags, I'm gonna pwn your weak tight asses, and if you try to steal my BB, I'm gonna cut you.

So, I guess the lesson is, I don't feel bad about admitting I can't handle the swings at the moment and it might be a nice break if poker is sticking it to you as well.

Thanks for reading.

-Craig
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  #2  
Old 11-27-2005, 09:25 AM
doppler doppler is offline
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Default Re: Stepping down and admitting defeat

I´m doing the same thing. I used to play 30/60 but decided to move down to 10/20 after a 200BB downswing.

For me it was a combination of the monetary loss and the realisation that I have still got a lot to learn. The downswing wasn´t variance, it was plain old bad play.
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  #3  
Old 11-27-2005, 09:35 AM
whiskeytown whiskeytown is offline
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Location: Minnesota
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Default Re: Stepping down and admitting defeat

to continue your military metaphor...

You are not admitting defeat.

You are conceding your position is weak and you are executing a tactical withdrawl into a better defensive position from which to attack.

At the proper time, you will continue your havoc of destruction. In the meantime, refit and regroup. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

It's only defeat if in your ignorance to take a stand, you get surrounded, cut off, and starved out.... - better that don't happen - LOL.

RB
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  #4  
Old 11-27-2005, 10:01 AM
waffle waffle is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Dallas - 2/4 and 3/6
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Default Re: Stepping down and admitting defeat

thanks for posting. gl. and guys, watch out for stacy's mom [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]
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  #5  
Old 11-27-2005, 11:39 AM
Toms Toms is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2004
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Default Re: Stepping down and admitting defeat

As a grinding tag 3-6er may I suggest that a player of your experience should not drop below 5-10, or send me your account names and I will avoid your tables. Really good luck and see you at the tables.
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  #6  
Old 11-27-2005, 05:40 PM
MicroBob MicroBob is offline
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Default Re: Stepping down and admitting defeat

Seems like November is kind of like re-living the mass-downswing that much of 2+2 had back in January.

I'm way down this month and have talked with a couple others who are too.


The great thing about online-poker is that there will ALWAYS be a limit that is small enough for your bankroll. You can ALWAYS step-down and just play more hands to rebuild.

That's why it amazes me when I hear stories of Mike Matusow blowing through his $400k bankroll playing online before the WSOP.
You would think he might be a little more conservative with that last $50k or so after dropping his first $350k.

But tilt is a powerful force...with all those thoughts of, 'hey, if I start running well again I'll have it back in no time.'

So obviously stepping-down in limits is not as easy as just saying you're going to do it. Because there is some serious ego that is involved.
we read of bicycle-kick sky-rocketing his way all the way up to 300/600 and we want to be there too....and we want it to just happen magically without too much effort.


Obviously poker is a bit tougher than that.


I'm with goblin most of the time in that I just can't stomach some of the down-swings that my inferior game brings. And because my bankroll is a bit smaller than before I am playing at the 3/6 games too and just grinding my way back (+150BB's in the past few days...Hoo-ray!).

I've never played 20/40 though. My 15/30 play has been somewhat limited and was mostly shot-taking but I probably got in about 30k-40k hands there in 2005 (guessing...lost some p-tracker records).
I've played plenty of 10/20 this year though...and a lot of 5/10 too.


I want to move back up in limits. And I know that this stepping-down stuff is an important aspect to 'shot-taking'.
If I get clobbered, or just get uncomfortable, then I step back and grind, grind, grind.
And I do it comfortably.

If/when i build my bankroll up to a nice and comfortable level again AND I think my game has fewer leaks then I start taking more shots at 10/20 (and maybe higher if my bankroll is REALLY comfortable) and see what happens.

OR...I just keep on grinding it out at 3/6 all year (and 5/10 again soon hopefully) and am comfortable in knowing that the absolute max that I could lose isn't too terrible.


One has to know one's psychological-bankroll limitations.
I know that I probably need more than 1k BB's at a given limit to feel comfortable.

Take 15/30 for example...I know that even if I have a total of $30k that I am not going to be very thrilled with a $6k down-swing.

At 5/10 I know that I'm going to be pretty stressed if I have a $2k down-swing eat into a $10k bankroll.
So I stepped down to 3/6 before my bankroll even got that low.


I'm a wuss...but I'm also semi-responsible about this poker stuff.
And I have the incentive of enjoying this lifestyle and flexibility enough that I still would prefer it to getting a job for some prick boss at a low-paying office gig or something (where I actually would have to wake-up early in the morning....GASP!!!)


Nice post Craig. You and I shall proceed to tear up the 3/6 games. Just stay the hell away from my tables please!!
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  #7  
Old 11-27-2005, 08:03 PM
Lurker4 Lurker4 is offline
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Location: Urbana, IL
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Default Re: Stepping down and admitting defeat

Sorry to hear about your downswing craig. I'm sure after dealing with the 10/20-20/40 lags the loose passive 3/6 will be a cakewalk, and you'll be back at your regular limits soon. good luck.
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  #8  
Old 11-28-2005, 02:30 AM
TStoneMBD TStoneMBD is offline
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Location: Rome, NY
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Default Re: Stepping down and admitting defeat

dont worry craig, we'll get your bankroll back in january playing craps.
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  #9  
Old 11-28-2005, 02:43 AM
sthief09 sthief09 is offline
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Location: duffman is thrusting in the direction of the problem (mets are 9-13, currently on a 1 game winning streak)
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Default Re: Stepping down and admitting defeat

going from 20/40 to 3/6 or 5/10 seems completely unnecessary
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  #10  
Old 11-28-2005, 02:50 AM
TStoneMBD TStoneMBD is offline
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Default Re: Stepping down and admitting defeat

yah i agree... from your post it seems like you still have a 20k roll. youre a good player and shouldnt have trouble beating 10/20. i dont know why you are going to 5/10.
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