Loose Omaha Limit Games

[TaintedRogue]

We have a lot of local games, of which, most are 2 orbits of Hold Em and 1 orbit of Omaha Hi. The Omaha orbit can get crazy, with 6-10 people seeing the Flop for multiple bets sometimes.

I was wondering how loose one would play in these games. I normally don't play a hand unless all four cards work together, except in a case like A,K,Q,9, when the ace is suited. I consider a hand like T,8,6,5 double suited to be garbage, however, I would play T,9,8,7, even if they are not suited. I would not play T,9,7,6, even if they were suited, as I don't see the flush winning, unless I'm in late position and can get in for 1 bet.

After the Flop, if I don't have the Nutz, or am drawing to the nutz, I'm gone. I don't ever raise, unless I have the current nut hand with an over-draw.

Anyone have any thoughts about how to play in these games? I am lucky if I get in 3 out of 20 hands, but, when I win a pot........it's huge.

[beset7]

Sounds to me like you are on the right track. People tend to think that Omaha is somehow so different from other poker games that adjusting to loose games is a different situation then it is in other forms of poker. But really, the same concepts apply. I'd reccomend the section in the Theory of Poker by DS about loose vs tight, passive vs. aggressive, games. It's gold with regards to limit omaha high.

[TaintedRogue]

Thanks. I have the book and will ck it out.

Limit Omaha Hi is somewhat of a rare game. I have played it a lot, as it was the game of choice at my local casino. We would play it at $4/8 1/2kill to 8/16 full kill.

I think you are doing a good job with starting hands. You may want to loosen up a little in late position if the pot is unlikely to see too much action pre-flop. A one gap-er like T,9,7,6 isn't a bad hand to see a flop with for 1 bet.

Because it is limit drawing hands go way up in value. If it is like the game I played in there would be so much money in the pot that gut shot str8s or a back door flush were sometimes correct to chase. When you are getting 15-20/1 on your call you have to be in there with those kinds of hands. (this is why this game should be played pot-limit, you can lay the drawing hands 2/1 at any time by betting the pot)

I think that you can put in some raises when you have hands other than the nuts a with re-draw. Keep in mind that a raise isn't going to drive people out unless you can re-raise someone and make people face 2 bets cold. A good spot is when you have top 2 and are getting action from a flush or str8 draw. With a re-raise you can get the pot 2 or 3 way and force some of the weaker draws out. If you can get someone to fold top or second pair with over cards you give yourself a much better chance to win with top 2, same goes for bottom end str8 draws and non nut flush draws.

If the pots are going to be huge you want to be seeing more than 3/20 hands if the cards warrant it. If the action pre-flop is somewhat mild (lots of calling) then you need to take more flops.
The down fall of most players in this game is going too far with hands that have no chance to win. This isn't the same as long shot hands that will make the nuts. 8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] isn't ever going to be good on a 10 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] board even getting 100/1 on you call.

[MrPokerPants]

Sounds like you already have a pretty good strategy, but I would loosen up your starting requirements. In a good loose game like you describe, you should be playing about 30% of your starting hands. I ususally do not play hands that have cards in the 2,3,4 range. A sample of hands that I play:

Any four unpaired cards with up to two gaps. 5,6,7,10 would be the worst hand of this type that I would play.

Two Pair: 5,5,6,6 is good, no pairs lower than 55 unless one of my pairs are aces.

One pair: needs connecting cards, preferably no more than one gap. 6,6,7,8 is good, but 5,6,10,10 is not.

Suited Ace: play 5,6,7,As but not 8,9,10,Ao

In late position, after several limpers, raise just about any hand that you would limp in with. I tend to raise preflop about 9-10% of my hands, and I don't need a powerhouse to raise.

Postflop, I bet and raise with many of my draws as well as my made hands. It is very easy to have many outs in this game, and you should try and make the pot as large as possible when this is the case.

SSHE relates very well to this game.

[Tilt]

In a game like this I would also play any suited ace...people pay off with 2nd flushes very well and your equity on any flush draw flop is usually very good with so many players involved.

[TaintedRogue]

[ QUOTE ]
Limit Omaha Hi is somewhat of a rare game. I have played it a lot, as it was the game of choice at my local casino. We would play it at $4/8 1/2kill to 8/16 full kill.

I think you are doing a good job with starting hands. You may want to loosen up a little in late position if the pot is unlikely to see too much action pre-flop. A one gap-er like T,9,7,6 isn't a bad hand to see a flop with for 1 bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

Would you play this type hand in LP, if you thought there was at least a 40% chance of someone raising behind you?


[ QUOTE ]
Because it is limit drawing hands go way up in value. If it is like the game I played in there would be so much money in the pot that gut shot str8s or a back door flush were sometimes correct to chase. When you are getting 15-20/1 on your call you have to be in there with those kinds of hands. (this is why this game should be played pot-limit, you can lay the drawing hands 2/1 at any time by betting the pot)

[/ QUOTE ]

This is why I don't play AA in late position after 5 people have limped, unless I have 2 broadway cards, or another broadway pair to go with it. Even when I flop a set, I still lose the majority of the time, as you almost always have 3 opponents going to the River. And, if two players hit a str8 on the Turn, you would pay dearly to see the River. You would also pay dearly, if you flopped a set and 2 people had nice drawing hands.

[ QUOTE ]
I think that you can put in some raises when you have hands other than the nuts a with re-draw. Keep in mind that a raise isn't going to drive people out unless you can re-raise someone and make people face 2 bets cold. A good spot is when you have top 2 and are getting action from a flush or str8 draw. With a re-raise you can get the pot 2 or 3 way and force some of the weaker draws out. If you can get someone to fold top or second pair with over cards you give yourself a much better chance to win with top 2, same goes for bottom end str8 draws and non nut flush draws.

[/ QUOTE ]

I follow you on this.

[ QUOTE ]
If the pots are going to be huge you want to be seeing more than 3/20 hands if the cards warrant it. If the action pre-flop is somewhat mild (lots of calling) then you need to take more flops.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's 3/30 when not in the blinds.

[ QUOTE ]
The down fall of most players in this game is going too far with hands that have no chance to win. This isn't the same as long shot hands that will make the nuts. 8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] isn't ever going to be good on a 10 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] board even getting 100/1 on you call.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll chase a "long-shot" when it's the nutz, such as best str8, when there is no flush draw & I have pot odds, but if there is a flush draw, I've got to have much better odds, say 16:1 on a 3 outer to a str8 with a flush draw.

Still too tight? Thanks for your input.

[TaintedRogue]

[ QUOTE ]
In a game like this I would also play any suited ace...people pay off with 2nd flushes very well and your equity on any flush draw flop is usually very good with so many players involved.

[/ QUOTE ]

This I'll play, but only if 5 have already limped and the players left to act are not the aggressive type. Remember, I know all these players, so I know what's going to happen after me, almost always.
In addition, with so many players seeing the flop, and Ciaffone claiming that in a 10 player game, that 50% of the players will have a pocket pair, there is a good chance someone flopped a set and will be chasing a house while you're chasing your flush.
You can't afford to chase a str8 or flush in these games when the board is paired. It's suicide.

[TaintedRogue]

six people in the pot for 1 bet, and I make the 7th in the BB with A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Flop: J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

I bet and it's raised and re-raised. I fold.
I bet the Flop to see where I'm at.

[ QUOTE ]
Would you play this type hand in LP, if you thought there was at least a 40% chance of someone raising behind you?

[/ QUOTE ]

Most likely not. Like I said this is the kind of hand you want to see for one bet. If it was raised in front of me and there were 2 callers or more, I would take a flop. If I thought there was a %40 chance someone with position on me would raise the pot, I'd pass.

[ QUOTE ]
This is why I don't play AA in late position after 5 people have limped, unless I have 2 broadway cards, or another broadway pair to go with it. Even when I flop a set, I still lose the majority of the time, as you almost always have 3 opponents going to the River. And, if two players hit a str8 on the Turn, you would pay dearly to see the River. You would also pay dearly, if you flopped a set and 2 people had nice drawing hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

I with you on this one. AA hands without good side cards only play well in short handed pots. The limit structure prevents this most of the time. If I had something like A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 10 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] then I would be in there. It' not a great hand but the side cards work with the A's (the situation you gave)

I think you can still loosen up you starting hand selection. Like I said going too far with hands or being in the pot with hands that have no chance of winning is the downfall of most. You should be taking flops with some rundown or 1 gapers. Suited A with somethig to go with (pair, straight cards, etc.) Because people will go too far lets you get paid off when you flop huge with one of these hands.