Party 25NL. AK tptk, bets pot gets two callers.

[RicktheRuler]

[ QUOTE ]
Preflop: Hero is BB with K, A. SB posts a blind of $0.10.
UTG calls $0.25, 1 fold, MP1 :#A500AF(Villan)/ calls $0.25, 2 folds, CO calls $0.25, 1 fold, SB (poster) completes, Hero raises to $0.5, UTG calls $0.50, MP1 :#A500AF(Villan)/ calls $0.50, CO calls $0.50, SB folds.


[/ QUOTE ]

I am sure everyone told you that if you are going to raise, you must raise more, especially since you are going to be at a positional disadvantage for the rest of the hand.

[ QUOTE ]
Flop: ($3.25) 7, A, 8 (4 players)
Hero bets $3, UTG folds, Villan calls $3, CO calls $3.

[/ QUOTE ]

This part of the hand is fine. You cannot risk letting a free card come off here. The two callers may not be giving you as much respect as they should here becuase you did not define your hand that well preflop.

[ QUOTE ]
Turn: ($12.25) 3 (3 players)
Hero ??

[/ QUOTE ]

Now you have to use the information you have up to this point to make a decision. They both limped pre-flop right? What would that do that with--weak aces, weak suited aces, suited connectors, small pocket pairs, maybe hands like AJo ATo, KJo KQo.

Now what kind of hand would call a pot sized bet on the flop. The flush draws will almost always call in this game. Hell, even a bare OESD will call in this game. The weak aces are almost certainly going to call in this game.

I think will that board and since you showed some strength preflop, the two pair and set hands are going to raise you on the flop.

So what do I suggest? A push. Flame away.

[gulebjorn]

[ QUOTE ]
Just curious on a related note. Is a minraise in any position pre-flop ever correct? I would think no.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, say you are in the BB with a small pocket pair. Your chances of hitting trips are 7:1. So if there are 7 limpers and the SB completes, and you minraise, you will get 8 more BB's in the pot, for one of your own. I guess that's a profitable play.

I didn't factor in implied odds on that one. It's hard to quantify, but if you hit your trips, you will be able to bet bigger because the pot is bigger and people will tend to stay in longer.

So in this example, maybe it could even be profitable with 6 limpers, maybe 5.

Same logic could be applied to other drawing hands like Axs or SC's.

And for the record: I never minraise PF. I've just been thinking about this some. Not at all sure I'm correct though.

[kurto]

There's only one time I've ever min(re)raised, and that was post flop when I wanted to play a hand heads up, but without losing the original raiser... so I minraised making it less enticing for others to call, but keeping the original guy in.

Preflop, I can only think of one reason to minraise:
If you're at a table and you know some maniac/lag bet, was called by a bunch of limpers, and you know the LAG will reopen the betting if you minraise it, and you have aces and know it will allow you to get him all in preflop, then maybe a minraise is in order. But that's so rare, its the exception.

Most of the time, I see this from the idiotic minraisers... 4-5 people limp pf, the button minraises it, UTG makes a major reraise, and then everyone including the minraiser folds. If you're going to minraise it, then you should be prepared to play a real raise, perhaps even up to an all in.

2 other thoughts: I always wonder... If one is sitting at a $25 table and they minraise it every time they're in a hand, I don't understand why the person doesn't just sit at a $50 table? Since the raise is doing nothing except doubling the big blind, they should just move up a table.

The other is related to minraising... nothing spells fish more then these guys who call raises PF... the pot is now $4 and some guy in EP now leads on the flop... for a quarter, then folds when someone raises it. Is there any point to that quarter bet other then it being a charitable donation to your opponents? lol

[gulebjorn]

[ QUOTE ]
2 other thoughts: I always wonder... If one is sitting at a $25 table and they minraise it every time they're in a hand, I don't understand why the person doesn't just sit at a $50 table? Since the raise is doing nothing except doubling the big blind, they should just move up a table.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe because it's like a $50 table with 0.10 - 0.25 blinds?

[kurto]

[ QUOTE ]
So what do I suggest? A push. Flame away.


[/ QUOTE ] Though I agree with your assessment as to what hands are most LIKELY out there... I think the push is terrible. Its one of those situations where, unless everyone is a moron, everyone you beat will fold and everyone else will call. Matter of fact, I LOVE overbetters like this. They're the ideal people to trap.

[ QUOTE ]
I think will that board and since you showed some strength preflop, the two pair and set hands are going to raise you on the flop.


[/ QUOTE ]

I don't agree... many people slowplay their sets until the turn. How often do you see people with sets play the same pattern, call the flop bet, raise (or checkraise) the turn.

Furthermore, Considering all the limpers and the fact that its a $25 table, a lot of weak aces are possible. And now, on the turn when someone else may have just made 2 pair, or when a set is ready to 'make their move', you suggest the poster go allin with no improvement.

I think this is a terrible idea, it gets no value out of the hand when OP is ahead because it folds all worse hands except from the worst calling stations and gives away his stack to anyone who's beating him.

[RicktheRuler]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So what do I suggest? A push. Flame away.


[/ QUOTE ] Though I agree with your assessment as to what hands are most LIKELY out there... I think the push is terrible. Its one of those situations where, unless everyone is a moron, everyone you beat will fold and everyone else will call. Matter of fact, I LOVE overbetters like this. They're the ideal people to trap.

[ QUOTE ]
I think will that board and since you showed some strength preflop, the two pair and set hands are going to raise you on the flop.


[/ QUOTE ]

I don't agree... many people slowplay their sets until the turn. How often do you see people with sets play the same pattern, call the flop bet, raise (or checkraise) the turn.

Furthermore, Considering all the limpers and the fact that its a $25 table, a lot of weak aces are possible. And now, on the turn when someone else may have just made 2 pair, or when a set is ready to 'make their move', you suggest the poster go allin with no improvement.

I think this is a terrible idea, it gets no value out of the hand when OP is ahead because it folds all worse hands except from the worst calling stations and gives away his stack to anyone who's beating him.

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess the standard play is to lead the turn and fold to a raise right? What if we are called, a reasonable sized defensive/value bet on the river? Meh, I suppose this is the right way to play it.


Don't forget we are talking about the worst players on the internet in this game. I seriously doubt many of them are capable of laying traps to the huge overbetters--I must note that in my game I will make this overbets with Sets and Huge Draws also, so sometimes when I sense weakness, like in this situation I will put my opponents to the test.

[mudbuddha]

eww..
do you honestly play with that thought proccess?

u might as well check ur AA bc they might get a flush/straight tooo

[mudbuddha]

i min-raise all the time low pockets/suited connectors.. mix it up instead of always calling..(at tight tables that refuse to give action post flop)
.. but not AK..

[kurto]

[ QUOTE ]
Don't forget we are talking about the worst players on the internet in this game. I seriously doubt many of them are capable of laying traps to the huge overbetters--

[/ QUOTE ] In general, you're right. But rarely is the table complete morons... you can count on at least one observant player per table. I play any of the tables from $25-$100. And at the $25 tables, I make surprising big pots from people overplaying top pair.

[ QUOTE ]
I must note that in my game I will make this overbets with Sets and Huge Draws also, so sometimes when I sense weakness, like in this situation I will put my opponents to the test.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think that's great... but then your suggestion makes sense as part of an overall strategy (ie... you're going to get called a few times and you'd better show really strong hands a few times... or this play becomes chip spewing.)

Also, I still think it works better in late position. I still say he's getting the least when he's ahead and losing the most when he's behind.

[boondockst]

I started puking halfway through this thread and couldn't finish reading it...Is this the state of the SSNL forum?????? We need a M(icro)SNL forum for crap like this.

Online idiots are one thing. "Supposed" 2+2 "learning-the-game" types who are misapplying every rule they read about in their books is just shameful. [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]


Min-raise a small pocket pair from the BB b/c of implied odds????? That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. I hope it leads you into an expensive limp-reraise from some idiot in early position who thinks he's slowplaying his high pair.