78 best suited connector?

[WhoIam]

I have a theory that 7-8 is the best non-broadway suited connector hand, at least in low-mid stakes games. I think this would be true because if you end up with trips or a top pair, you are far less likely to to be dominated by someone with a better kicker. It would also be less likely for an opponent to draw out to a better straight. Does this make sense?

[Brash620]

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I have a theory that 7-8 is the best non-broadway suited connector hand, at least in low-mid stakes games. I think this would be true because if you end up with trips or a top pair, you are far less likely to to be dominated by someone with a better kicker.

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What about someone playing A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img],8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] on a 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] board?

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It would also be less likely for an opponent to draw out to a better straight.

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I think by this you mean you would have a 8 to 4 straight, which then it would be true that your opponet couldn't make a bigger straight, but if you make a J to 7 straight you can be drawn out pretty easily

Actually 10,9s is the best non-broadway connector because you are just as likely to make a hand ( whether it be a straight,flush, pair, two pair, etc.) with it as you are with 8,7s or 4,5s. The only diffrence is when you make a hand it will be more likely to win with it.

[UATrewqaz]

JT is the best suited connector, because every straight it makes is the nut straight.

In addition it has SOME high card value. A lone pair of jacks or tens will hold up way more often than a lone pair of 8's.

True you could very well be likely up against AJ/AT or KJ or something like that and be dominated, but domination is only really terrible in a short handed pot, and 87s and JTs are multiway hands anyway.

Basically I'd rather take my chances with a pair of jacks with the threat of domination than a pair of 8's with little threat of domination. The plethora of high card threat is worse than the domination threat.

Edit: Oh apparently you meant non-broadway and techically JT is still broadway so nevermind.

[WhoIam]

Ax can clearly dominate any suited connector. I was talking more about hands like J9 and KT dominating 89 and 9T (this of course would be in a lower stakes game where people would play hands like this.) It is much more unlikely that people would play hands like Q7 so this is where I think 78s extra value is.

[NMcNasty]

In limit the higher the connector the better. You're up against the blinds calling with garbage enough times that the value from having a slightly higher pair makes up for the times when your top pair is outkicked.

In no limit I might have to agree that 78s is best, although even 54s isn't far behind. With 98 you can get yourself into trouble. A flop of QTJ is still good for you but not great.

[AaronBrown]

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JT is the best suited connector, because every straight it makes is the nut straight.

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I know what you mean, but I would say this differently. You can lose with a JT straight to a higher straight. If another player holds QT and the board is J9873, you lose. I know this isn't very likely, and it could happen with any other connector as well, so JT is still the best.

I see the appeal of 7's and 8's in general, although I would put 9's in that category as well. Of course, I'd always rather have a higher card, but 8's are not as much worse than J's as 5's are worse than 8's or 2's worse than 5's.

I don't buy the extra appeal with respect to straights. If you do get your straight, your worry is a full house. People play mid pairs almost as often as top pairs. You do get some advantage, plus the advantage that someone is unlikely to hold two middle cards, plus the advantage that you might get a low straight and people do often fold low pairs. But I don't think all these things add up to much compared to the chance of TT beating 88.

I like all suited connectors in a limped pot. Especially when someone in early posistion (who was looking for a check raise with a big hand) gets screwed when I flop two pair or a flush/straight draw.

[JacksonTens]

There is analysis on this extensively on the web somewhere, the lower connecters for some reason do have higher EV in certain circumstances. I'm sure Sklansky himself would know about this...

JT [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

I play more no-limit then limit, so this might not be as applicable in limit:

I would rather have lower suited connectors then 7-8. My favorite suited connectors are 4-5. These are a part of the nut wheel straight, which can kill someone playing an ace. Wheel straights are harder to notice then other straights, because weak players forget to look for them sometimes. So they think their aces are good, and get hit by a straight.

The problem with the higher suited connectors is that it gets more likely that someone is playing A-x, or K-x, or some other high card hand. Basically, making a pair with a suited connector hand is trouble. If it's not two pair or better, you're probably dropping the hand in no-limit. I could see playing it through in limit if it's somehow second pair or top pair, but in general, you're folding if you don't hit big. So the question is not how valuable your mediocre hands are, but how much you win with your big hands.


4-5 and 7-8 make the same amount of straights, the problem is that when 7-8 is the nut straight, there's not too much else you can have. But when you make a wheel, it's possibly my favorite feeling in poker. Because people tend to play any ace, and will probably stay in with a pair, or two pair, or whatever they have. You stand to win a lot more when you have the wheel then with any hand 7-8 makes. Also, if you make two pair or three of a kind with low cards, you're more likely to be alone with it then sharing with a higher kicker.

The only problem with the low connectors is the possibility of flushes. Obviously, you want your flushes to be as high as possible. But how much stronger is 8 high then 5 high? In either case, you're playing because you have two of the suit, rather then playing because your one is good. So if the board makes four to the suit, in no-limit, there's a good chance you're going to fold to a big bet. So the only real risk is if you lose to higher suited connectors of the same suit. But in that case, you may realize they must also have a flush. And in either case, I'd be willing to bet the odds are that you make more on the good situations with low connectors then you lose in the rare case that someone beats your flush with higher suited connectors.