Through the eyes of Villain - misplayed on every street?

[MN_Mime]

This is going to look a bit odd because I'm posting the hand from VILLAIN's perspective becuase I have a couple of river questions to ask at the end from HERO's perspective.

VILLAIN is MP2 with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (54 VPIP, 1.7 % PFR)

SB is (46.67 VPIP, 0% PFR) in 15 hands but this is consistent with the other times we've met up.

HERO's numbers in 20 hands this session (20 VPIP, SD 25%, Won $ at SD 66.67%, PFR 12.5%)

PRE-FLOP
1 fold, HERO raises, 1 fold, VILLAIN calls, MP3 calls, Cutoff calls, Button calls, SB completes, BB completes.

FLOP 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (7 players)
SB checks, BB checks, HERO bets, VILLAIN calls, MP3 folds, Cutoff calls, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls.

TURN 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB checks, BB checks, HERO bets, VILLAIN raises, Cutoff folds, Button folds, SB calls, BB folds, HERO 3-bets, VILLAIN calls, SB calls.

RIVER J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, HERO bets, VILLAIN bets, SB folds, HERO calls.

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First, are there any streets that he played correctly?

I think he's got to find a raise pre-flop and flop, at the minimum. Aggression at the turn is too little, too late and misplaced and the river is a misguided bluff with an obvious second-best hand.

Second, what range of hands would you put HERO on here? How about if HERO was 33 VPIP?


Thanks!

[Fantam]

Assuming that you were UTG I would put you on AA-TT, AK or AQ.

I think that villain should have reraised preflop. I dont blame him for waiting for the turn to raise, because the pot was big on the flop and he could not protect his hand from weak draws by betting or raising.

I can understand villain raising on the turn, because there is a good chance that you as the preflop raiser does not have the flush.

On the river, I think it would have been worthwhile for villain to call, but I dont think that he should have raised (if that is what he did).

[Russ McGinley]

Villain played every street wrong except the turn. With his putrid PFR numbers I can only assume he has only raised preflop with AA or KK.

How can he not raise this flop? I don't get it.

Turn raise is okay, but where has he been? If he thought he was ahead the whole time he should have been raising earlier.

River raise is putrid. Does he think hero is going to fold a club here?

I put hero on QQ with the Qc.

[MN_Mime]

[ QUOTE ]
Assuming that you were UTG I would put you on AA-TT, AK or AQ.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good read.

[ QUOTE ]
I think that villain should have reraised preflop. I dont blame him for waiting for the turn to raise, because the pot was big on the flop and he could not protect his hand from weak draws by betting or raising.

I can understand villain raising on the turn, because there is a good chance that you as the preflop raiser does not have the flush.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm wondering if these two thoughts are in contradiction.

Shouldn't he raise the flop to try to isolate the pre-flop raiser (who probably doesn't have the flush draw)? He's also got to be concerned about overcards helping HERO and the misc trash being played. Lastly, there are two blinds show completed so they probably have stronger than average any-two-holdings.

Maybe they still get the odds to draw but I thought this was poor play at the time and I couldn't see myself doing it. I think we both agree that he's got to find a value raise *somewhere*?

Thanks!

[MN_Mime]

[ QUOTE ]
Villain played every street wrong except the turn. With his putrid PFR numbers I can only assume he has only raised preflop with AA or KK.

How can he not raise this flop? I don't get it.

Turn raise is okay, but where has he been? If he thought he was ahead the whole time he should have been raising earlier.

River raise is putrid. Does he think hero is going to fold a club here?

I put hero on QQ with the Qc.

[/ QUOTE ]

Gave me a hair too much credit but otherwise bang on. I held T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

If I hold Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], I know that I find a 3-bet on the river. I couldn't raise for value here because the turn bet put a big club redraw in my head.

If you turn this hand around and you get the turn raise and the donk bet on the river, do you think the flush redraw helped you or "improved" you to second-best?

Thanks!

[MN_Mime]

VILLAIN is MP2 (54 VPIP, 1.7 % PFR)
SB is (46.67 VPIP, 0% PFR)

Hero holds held T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

PRE-FLOP
1 fold, HERO raises, 1 fold, VILLAIN calls, MP3 calls, Cutoff calls, Button calls, SB completes, BB completes.

FLOP 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (7 players)
SB checks, BB checks, HERO bets, VILLAIN calls, MP3 folds, Cutoff calls, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls.

TURN 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB checks, BB checks, HERO bets, VILLAIN raises, Cutoff folds, Button folds, SB calls, BB folds, HERO 3-bets, VILLAIN calls, SB calls.

RIVER J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, HERO bets, VILLAIN raises, SB folds, HERO calls.

---

Any problems with any streets? Anyone raise the river and why?

[jrz1972]

1. Villain misplayed every street except the turn. (Given that he forgot he had pocket Js preflop and on the flop, raising the turn is fine).

2. Hero has KK, with the K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. (Edit: Nope)

[jrz1972]

You overplayed on the turn.

Why would you even consider 3-betting the river?

With your hand, I raise PF, bet the flop, bet the turn, and then call down after getting raised. I do not bet this river into two opponents, but I do call a single river bet.

[bozlax]

What are Villan's postflop agg numbers? While we're at it, what are Hero's postflop agg numbers (I think you went over the top on this river)?

In response to the OP: Villan should have 3-bet preflop and raised the flop, but that's clearly outside his ability. I don't hate the raise on the turn (waiting for the big streets in a big pot with an overpair), but I think if he'd been more aggressive on previous streets he might've taken the pot.

As for Hero, I'm on board right up to the river bet. When Villan woke up on the turn it tells me he's either holding a set, an overpair, or a made flush. I've seen players pop the turn a couple of times recently with a flush draw, but that's pretty rare and it's usually to a strong flush.

So, on the river I figure it to be about 50/50 that I'm losing to Villan, given that my overpair just turned into the fouth-best flush, and SB hanging around doesn't make it any safer. I check behind SB, hoping for a free showdown; if it comes back 2 to me, I fold.

[bozlax]

Addendum: it's early, and I can't read. YOU 3-BET THE TURN? Jeebus, dude, what did you put Villan on?