Too advanced thinking for 25NL?

JeanieJ · #1 08-18-2005, 02:31 AM

A little background: I have experience in higher games than this and I'm usually a tournament player. Though I get by on ring games if I give them a chance... Here's the hand: First one at the table (so no reads whatsoever)

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (9 handed) converter

saw flop|saw showdown

MP2 ($23.95)
MP3 ($27.30)
CO ($22.85)
Button ($25)
SB ($13.75)
Hero ($25)
UTG ($68.30)
UTG+1 ($11.55)
MP1 ($33.60)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
2 folds, MP1 calls $0.25, 1 fold, MP3 calls $0.25, 2 folds, SB completes, Hero raises to $1.5, MP1 calls $1.25, MP3 calls $1.25, SB folds.

Flop: ($4.75) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets $3.5, MP1 calls $3.50, MP3 calls $3.50.

Turn: ($15.25) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets $5.5, MP1 folds, MP3 raises to $22.3, Hero calls $14.50 (All-In).

River: ($57.55) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $57.55

For some reason I thought this was a bluff push. Generally a player at these limits will raise a flush draw on a flop like that, right? Am I giving him too much credit by assuming he would raise this flop with a flush draw? Calling this all-in is assuming he DOESN'T have the flush and is trying to bluff the pot....

Thoughts? Comments? Is it WAY past my bedtime or what??

amoeba · #2 08-18-2005, 02:46 AM

I think its too advanced for this level.

I think this leve should be. they'll cal with anything and I won't put my stack in when they hit.

Allinlife · #3 08-18-2005, 02:57 AM

with 2 callers..you gotta check-fold these

JeanieJ · #4 08-18-2005, 03:05 AM

Even without the club I'm betting this turn assuming a straight card/overcard doesn't hit. Are you saying I should insta-check/fold this turn no matter what pops up. I'm not really fearing the nuts here...

#5 08-18-2005, 03:41 AM

I don't think you should assume that a 25 NL player would raise with just a flush draw. Most of these players are way too passive to make that kind of aggressive play.

I think you are overthinking in this spot, unless you had a specific read on your opponent.

I would probably bet the turn and fold to a re-raise out of position, and check behind in position.

Riposte · #6 08-18-2005, 04:39 AM

I'm pretty inexperienced at NL... could you explain the reasoning behind raising a flush draw on the flop here? Thanks.

#7 08-18-2005, 04:47 AM

Raising a flush draw is ment to give the illusion that you alredy have a hand, but fear the flush yourself. This is to make your opponent more likely to keep shipping his money if you hit the flush.

Also it gives you a bit looser table image which might be good in order to get paid with alredy made hands later on.

#8 08-18-2005, 04:48 AM

I don't see why you are assuming/thinking that he would raise on the flush draw here. First, it's a mutliway pot and he's in position. Second, he's got some one, whom he's in position on, who is showing a bunch of strength. If he gets cute with it and raises, he's probably afraid you'll put him in. Also, he might be worried a little about the guy who is sandwiched having a set, but also hoping he does and then Villain gets paid off in two spots with his flush. It looks like a great place to just call. You don't have to buy every pot, especialy against a guy showing strength and another calling.

And I definitely check/fold that turn. Against two opponents, you're up against at least two pair. No way it's any good there. But if you have to bet out, fold to the all in.

Malachii · #9 08-18-2005, 04:51 AM

The Pokerstars 25$ NL sucks. Total rock garden. It's a horrible game to break into. Go to pokeroom or something.

JeanieJ · #10 08-18-2005, 04:55 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I don't see why you are assuming/thinking that he would raise on the flush draw here. First, it's a mutliway pot and he's in position. Second, he's got some one, whom he's in position on, who is showing a bunch of strength.

[/ QUOTE ]

Because I honestly don't give my opponents this much credit. It IS 25NL and the majority of the players are not going to know as much about position as your typical 2p2er. I've noticed that people tend to think a raise means AKo AKs AQo AQs AJo/s etc... when I do have pockets pairs people are drawing for their overs.

I'm pretty sure my play was bad. 75% sure anyway, but I don't think he's push the flush. Wouldn't he want value out of it?