Are conservatives simply 25 years behind the curve?

[Benman]

Why does it seem that on important moral issues, mainstream conservatism has nearly always gotten it wrong, or at least stayed wrong 25 years or so too long? Start with women's suffrage. Mainstream, decent conservatives argued against giving women the vote. Some liberals did too, but not as long. Question: do any modern conservatives seriously think women shouldn't be allowed to vote? Of course not, so can we just conclude that conservatism was wrong for a longer period of time on that issue? Next came segregation. There was a period, perhaps the 40s and 50s, when liberals concluded that segregation was wrong but most conservatives disagreed. It's important to note that we're not talking about radical bigots, just your average conservative. Today, there's no decent minded conservative that thinks segregation was acceptable, so what gives? Next came interracial marriage. As late as the late 60's and early 70's, the equivalent of today's National Review crowd supported laws against interracial marriage. I'm sure most conservatives, even far right, have changed their minds on that one too. My point is this--how can we give conservatives any credence on moral issues when historically they've simply been behind the curve on clear cut moral issues? I'm not saying that liberals always had it right, they just got it right sooner. What say you conservatives out there? How do you distinguish yourself from a 1950's conservative who was similarly situated on the political spectrum to yourself? Don't you admit that you would have supported segregation laws for some period of time after a majority of Americans realized it was wrong?

[phlup]

I think Peter Griffin said it best:

"Look Lois, the two symbols of the Republican Party: an elephant, and a big fat white guy who is threatened by change."

[FishHooks]

This is the main problem with liberals they think everything is simple but we live in a complex world which is why their "theories" suck and are never realistic. First of all when you talk what political parties have done in the past (50+ yrs ago), thats not a good argument, political parties are constantly changing to the times, even republicans. Just 40 years ago JFK your belovid deomocrat created the 2nd largest precetage tax cut for the rich (reagan was the largest) would that happen today of coruse not.

Sergregation is a touchy issue, while eveyone believe is the right of black people, I still dont agree with throwing 3 black kids in a school of white kids like they did in that age, it should be real non-segregation which is what it is today. non-Segregation does have its problems, costs tons of money to bus kids across counties and cities but its definatly benificial and was good thing. Conservatives weren't racist at that time, they just didn't agree with the way they desegretaged the schools, which is a valdi point.

Liberals are on the wrong side or gay marriage (was defeated on many state ballots) and most people disagree with Roe V Wade, look at congress, the president, looks like CONSERVATIVES are in the majority.

[DVaut1]

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This is the main problem with liberals they think everything is simple

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I think conservatives need to get their talking points straightened out.

Liberals are typically accused of overcomplicating everything, not oversimplifying. You may want to consider consulting the following resources for a right-wing talking-point retraining session:

http://www.hannity.com/
http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/
http://www.anncoulter.org/cgi-local/welcome.cgi

[coffeecrazy1]

[ QUOTE ]
Liberals are on the wrong side or gay marriage (was defeated on many state ballots) and most people disagree with Roe V Wade, look at congress, the president, looks like CONSERVATIVES are in the majority.

[/ QUOTE ]

I take issue with this post and the OP at the same time, because both adopt the same sort of moral absolutism in their attitude, as if EVERY single issue has one side...and you either get it or you don't. I don't think that there are no moral absolutes, but I do think that there is usually more than one way to look at things. That's why words like perspective, opinion, and perception exist.

Holding onto past beliefs is not an indication of being behind the times, necessarily. Liberals are no more enlightened than conservatives; they just believe themselves to be so. On the flip side, simply because the conservatives currently hold the White House and the votes in Congress does not constitute a mandate from Heaven about their ideas and agendas.

Both sides need to understand that emotions of people drive their beliefs, not logic(by and large). It takes extra effort to use logic as the basis of your most core beliefs(and I'm not saying I do this 100%). So...no...conservatives are not "simply" behind the curve...they are not "simply" anything. On the other hand, the fact the conservatives hold a majority does not validate their beliefs, necessarily...and saying that someone is on the "WRONG" side of anything is an ignorant statement.

[IronDragon1]

[ QUOTE ]


I take issue with this post and the OP at the same time, because both adopt the same sort of moral absolutism in their attitude, as if EVERY single issue has one side...and you either get it or you don't. I don't think that there are no moral absolutes, but I do think that there is usually more than one way to look at things. That's why words like perspective, opinion, and perception exist.

Holding onto past beliefs is not an indication of being behind the times, necessarily. Liberals are no more enlightened than conservatives; they just believe themselves to be so. On the flip side, simply because the conservatives currently hold the White House and the votes in Congress does not constitute a mandate from Heaven about their ideas and agendas.

Both sides need to understand that emotions of people drive their beliefs, not logic(by and large). It takes extra effort to use logic as the basis of your most core beliefs(and I'm not saying I do this 100%). So...no...conservatives are not "simply" behind the curve...they are not "simply" anything. On the other hand, the fact the conservatives hold a majority does not validate their beliefs, necessarily...and saying that someone is on the "WRONG" side of anything is an ignorant statement.

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PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE DON'T LEAVE!!!!

[FishHooks]

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and saying that someone is on the "WRONG" side of anything is an ignorant statement.

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Really on anything? So do you think Bin Ladin is on the "Wrong" side?

IF you say no, then you have other problems, if you say yes you just nullified your whole statment.

[coffeecrazy1]

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and saying that someone is on the "WRONG" side of anything is an ignorant statement.

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Really on anything? So do you think Bin Ladin is on the "Wrong" side?

IF you say no, then you have other problems, if you say yes you just nullified your whole statment.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well...I disagree that saying yes nullifies my whole statement, since I was clearly speaking about domestic policy and the political attitude prevalent in this country. Both conservatives and liberals agree that Bin Laden is wrong for killing Americans.

Now...I misspoke in making a blanket statement, but I thought that the context in which I was speaking was clear...apparently not.

[FishHooks]

maybe you shouldn't of used the word "anything".

However I agree there are FEW moral absolutisms, there are mostly only opinions, which is why I hate to agrue about moral issues, it goes no where. I prefer economic issues because at least those you can discuss without offending the other half of the population and it just becomes a good debate. I agree with your last post though, that political attitude is really bad, you can see it in the forums I'm guilty of it as well, I fall into the trap of mudslinging back when others do it. Its hard to have a good political discussion people are always changing the subject and using cheep shots. Even though I'm a conservative I dont hate liberals (I'm not so sure about the flip side of that) I just think its every conservatives duty to "englighten" the other side.

[Cosimo]

What's the goal here? To identify the 'core' of Republican thought, and thereby malign it?

Religion is the core of Conservative philosophy. The Republican platform (anti-gay, anti-abortion) comes from these religious values. The heavily religious are found in red states, of course, and are not generally recipients of government handouts, and so also oppose the welfare state. Politicians that align themselves with the Republican party pander to this market in order to maintain the power and perks of office.

Socialism is the core of Liberal philosophy. The Democratic platform (statism, environmentalism) is a direct result. Those with victim complexes or who wish to prove their superior social values support this party because, again, those politicians pander to thier special interests.

Politically I'm a Capitalist, by which I mean that natural rights are the source of proper government. From that perspective I say that sometimes Liberals get things right (such as women's sufferage and anti-segregation); at other times Conservatives get things right (smaller government). Generally, both Republicans and Democrats are tards.

:P