WA/WB? Raise?

[Entity]

[ QUOTE ]
Why?

-Jaran

[/ QUOTE ]

Because he's aggressive, would generally checkraise a King, and there are a fair amount of draws an aggressive player could be betting.

I'd raise the turn.

Rob

[Entity]

[ QUOTE ]
Jaran, table 37753 (or Hippies Joint?)

I saw you raise preflop, get 3bet, then fold for 1 SB on the flop on a Qxx flop. What gives?

[/ QUOTE ]

Lots of hands should be played that way, depending on position -- KJ, KTs, K9s, AJo, ATo...

[gopnik]

I like it, nice hand. Let him bluff into you if he's behind, and unless you can fold to a 3-bet on the flop, calling down is fine.

[Entity]

[ QUOTE ]
calling down is fine.

[/ QUOTE ]

No it isn't. You're missing bets against this sort of opponent in the long run and that's a bad thing.

Rob

[bozlax]

[ QUOTE ]
One bump just cuz

-Jaran

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Cuz I might've missed it otherwise. [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

I like the WA/WB line, especially with the aggro Villan, but you left a bet on the table by not following through on the river. I call the flop and turn and then pop him on the river. If he 3-bets the river, depending on how aggro he is, I might even cap...the number of hands you lose to (KK/JJ/K-rag) are MANY fewer than the hands you beat (everything else) so I certainly think you're good here enough to raise/call and probably to raise/cap.

[Jaran]

UTG flips over K9o for the flopped trips, rivered boat. When I was playing the hand, I had decided to play WA/WB, with a plan on raising the river. But the poker daemon of weak-tight possessed me and I only called. Looking at it now, I like a turn raise the best, though an arguement can be made for waiting until the river.

-Jaran

[btspider]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why?

-Jaran

[/ QUOTE ]

Because he's aggressive, would generally checkraise a King, and there are a fair amount of draws an aggressive player could be betting.

I'd raise the turn.

Rob

[/ QUOTE ]

i'm not really seeing these draws. the villian only really has 4 outs at best here. if the flop were two-tone, i'd like a turn raise more. as is, it sounds like he's the type to fire the third bullet, so we make just as much when ahead by calling the turn.. but we could potentially fold a total bluff by raising him.

what's your plan if 3-bet on the turn?

[bottomset]

well I guess our aggro villian doesn't c/ring a K

[Jaran]

Nope [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]. Besides pf, I like the way he played the hand. A c/r on the flop or turn is how you would expect a K to play, so by betting out, he disguises his hand and represents a J. If the daemon hadn't siezed me, he would have gotten at least one more bet from me on the river, and prolly two, by taking this line.

-Jaran

[Entity]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why?

-Jaran

[/ QUOTE ]

Because he's aggressive, would generally checkraise a King, and there are a fair amount of draws an aggressive player could be betting.

I'd raise the turn.

Rob

[/ QUOTE ]

i'm not really seeing these draws. the villian only really has 4 outs at best here. if the flop were two-tone, i'd like a turn raise more. as is, it sounds like he's the type to fire the third bullet, so we make just as much when ahead by calling the turn.. but we could potentially fold a total bluff by raising him.

what's your plan if 3-bet on the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

1) Villain is aggressive. This is important as his handrange goes way up.

2) QT, Q9, AT, T9 -- all of these are "draws" that villain could very conceivably bet-call. QT has 8 outs, the rest have 4 -- but the fact that they won't always bluff the river needs to be very strongly considered.

3) Nothing has been stated about villain bet-folding on scary boards. I don't see why we're considering it even reasonably likely that he's betting a complete bluff into hero very often, especially on this board.

I'm not raising the turn to "charge the draws" as much as I am raising to gain value against his likely hand, which is generally going to be some derivative of Jx (JT, QJ, etc). Sometimes I'll get 3-bet by a King that was playing straightforward and while that sucks, I'll still draw out occasionally (woo!) and sometimes I'll get 3-bet by a worse hand.

I don't see any significant advantage conferred by waiting for the river, especially given how often a hand like JT played aggresisvely will go bet-bet-check(call).

Rob