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  #1  
Old 12-28-2005, 09:26 AM
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Default Fold a Full House on the River?

Party Poker $400 NL ten-handed

Stacks
Hero $600
Villain $600

I'm in late position with 44
Villain seems to be a loose player.

Villain raises $26 from middle position,
I call, blinds fold.
FLOP comes Q42 giving me middle set.
Hero checks, Villain bets $56 (size of pot).
Hero calls, thinking villain has top pair, probably AQ.
TURN is Q, Villain bets $100, Hero raises $100 more. Villain calls.

At this point, I have a full house, and I figure the villain is going to lose his stack with his trip queens.

Now on the river, a bad card falls...

RIVER: A
Villian bets all in for $200 remaining.

Should I lay down the hand? My read says this guy just made a better full house (with QQQAA vs my 444QQ)

I called, and the villain showed AQ, having filled up on the river. Was this a donkey call? Or a must-call situation? ($200 to call a $1000 pot)

Did I screw up?

PLease tell me your thoughts on this hand. Should I have gone all-in on the TURN? I wanted to get as much out of him as possible, and with such a strong hand, no reason to scare him away... bad play?
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  #2  
Old 12-28-2005, 10:06 AM
mgsimpleton mgsimpleton is offline
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Default Re: Fold a Full House on the River?

this post sucks. almost as bad as the preflop call. unless you know he has AK/AQ and are willing to play 44 UI for some money, just fold preflop.
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  #3  
Old 12-28-2005, 10:26 AM
jsnipes28 jsnipes28 is offline
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Default Re: Fold a Full House on the River?

Yea, don't minraise the turn. He isn't folding AQ here. You got lucky enough to hit so get your money in. You should definetely get it all in on the turn. You didn't make him pay to draw out on you. As played i think you have to call his river bet.
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  #4  
Old 12-28-2005, 10:42 AM
Fish1000 Fish1000 is offline
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Default Re: Fold a Full House on the River?

Despite the very questionable preflop call... you should have pushed on the turn or at least made it significantly more. If you thought on the flop that he had AQ, then there is no reason to believe that you will not get paid off if you get your money in there. Secondly, the river call is correct although it should not have gotten this far.
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  #5  
Old 12-28-2005, 11:13 AM
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Default Re: Fold a Full House on the River?


What's wrong with the pre-flop call? I'm calling 3% of our stacks to try to make a set... huge implied odds. If no set on flop i'm done with the hand.
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  #6  
Old 12-28-2005, 11:44 AM
swarm swarm is offline
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Default Re: Fold a Full House on the River?

Sorry, you played this hand like a monkey. I have no problem with the preflop call.

With that said you need to raise this flop. Perfect flop for you if he is holding AQ/AA or KK. He's not putting you on 44's or 22's.

As played you then go and min-raise the turn which is the worst bet possible. A push looks far weaker than a gay, please call me min-raise. Plus if you put him on AQ he has a lot of outs, make him pay for them so you don't leave yourself in the situation on the river where you have to make a crying call.

You need to play your big hands faster.
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  #7  
Old 12-28-2005, 11:54 AM
Karak567 Karak567 is offline
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Default Re: Fold a Full House on the River?

I'm weak/tight so I just raise the flop haha.

That said, get it all in on the turn.

And I think you need to call the river seeing the way you played it, QK, QJ, AK and a lot of other hands are possible here.

Oh and minraises are stupid.
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  #8  
Old 12-28-2005, 12:39 PM
Leptyne Leptyne is offline
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Default Re: Fold a Full House on the River?

If you have correctly put him on a hand, and you are ahead, then the turn bet becomes a simple matter of counting his outs. When you make the turn raise I believe there is $468 in the pot and the bet to villain is $100.

Just using approx. numbers since you've only got a few seconds to do this you should know that villain is ~4-1 to make a better boat. So, 4 times he'll lose $100 and one time he'll win $468 for + $68. Plus he might get more when he hits (implied odds).

So clearly at the turn your bet amount is incorrect. You need to make it so that if villain calls he is making a mistake. Since villain is also considering his implied odds you can easily take them away by making a BIG BET. This NL right? With a bet to you of $100 the pot is ~$268 and your call makes it ~$368. If I've figured this correctly you have $300 left, so you should raise all-in.

Now the pot is ~$668 and the bet to villain is $400. Clearly it is not correct for villain to call with these odds, plus you have taken away the implied odds.

Pay attention to the duck. If you aren't willing to fire at the pot and represent a set, thus knocking villain off TPTK then don't play the small pp.
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  #9  
Old 12-28-2005, 12:51 PM
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Default Re: Fold a Full House on the River?

Thanks for that analysis. I agree I totally munged the turn bet. On the other hand, I think I probably should have dumped the hand on the river. I had a pretty strong "this guy just drew out on me" feeling.

Where I screwed up on the turn was not thinking that my hand was vulnerable. I was thinking "I have the nuts, and this guy thinks he has a great hand". I guess I was seeing full house and not worried about his chances of improving.
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  #10  
Old 12-28-2005, 01:11 PM
Karak567 Karak567 is offline
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Default Re: Fold a Full House on the River?

Not calling 200 into a 1200 dollar pot on the river with a made boat is retarded.
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