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  #1  
Old 12-12-2005, 05:36 PM
fire_fly fire_fly is offline
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Default Non-standard SB plays: good?

just lately I've been "taking off the training wheels" pf from the sb.

Something like this. SB with Q To (or any playable hand), folded to donkey on button who limps.

If I think theres a decent chance bb will fold, I will raise here, hope the bb folds, then hope to take it down on the flop.

Button open limp=not a good hand i'm guessing, so he's more likely to give it up to aggression.

Thoughts?

Also, what do you think about completing from sb when the pot is sh. Ex. 1 limp already, loose bb not folding to raise, but what about completing with a hand like A 7o or Q 8o for highcard strength that just might be good if we hit?

I've been thinking about this 2nd one lately, but not doing it.
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  #2  
Old 12-12-2005, 06:03 PM
fire_fly fire_fly is offline
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Default Re: Non-standard SB plays: good?

ok, changed the posts name, now ppl interested? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
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  #3  
Old 12-12-2005, 06:06 PM
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Default Re: some SB thoughts

In the first situation, I like it only if expect BB to fold a large % of the time. I rarely find this to be the case. Taking advantage of open limpers is good, but getting involved OOP in a raised, 3-way pot with QTo is not a good way to make a living.

I personally like the second idea, since it allows you to play a hand that wants to see a flop, given 3:1, and, against the right players, the BB will rarely raise you.
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Old 12-12-2005, 06:27 PM
Peter Harris Peter Harris is offline
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Default Re: some SB thoughts

yeah you need BB to fold and make it HU with a hand like QTo a lot of the time, as it doesn't have a lot of UI showdown value (even against a donkey's button limp) and if you're involved in a 3way OOP raised pot you may get deep in trouble quickly. Completing here is okay.

As for completing, i think A7o completed in SB for 1SB getting 5:1 (assuming 1/2, 2/4, not 3/6 [3.5-1] or 5/10 [4-1]) is cool in all blind structures at our levels. Q8 i am not so hot on i dont think, but still, getting 5-1 i will.
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  #5  
Old 12-12-2005, 11:06 PM
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Default Re: some SB thoughts

BTW, I think you can open complete in the SB with Q2o+ and J4o+, assuming you can outplay the BB postflop.
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  #6  
Old 12-12-2005, 11:14 PM
Redeye Redeye is offline
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Default Re: some SB thoughts

[ QUOTE ]
In the first situation, I like it only if expect BB to fold a large % of the time. I rarely find this to be the case. Taking advantage of open limpers is good, but getting involved OOP in a raised, 3-way pot with QTo is not a good way to make a living.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with this. [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

I used to do this all the time thinking I could force BB out, but I don't think it happens enough. You end up playing a pretty marginal hand OOP. I just like calling and taking it from there.

I also agree with completing weaker offsuit aces and kings when there is one limper.
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  #7  
Old 12-13-2005, 12:49 AM
thesharpie thesharpie is offline
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Default Re: Non-standard SB plays: good?

What's the lowest type of suited hands you guys complete from the SB against a loose limper and an unknown BB? I limp all suited kings, Q5s, J6s, T7s, is this about right? I'll limp connectors down to about 65s and 1 gappers down to about 86s.
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  #8  
Old 12-13-2005, 01:07 AM
imported_leader imported_leader is offline
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Default Re: Non-standard SB plays: good?

I don't do J6s. J7s and T7s are boarderline. Sometimes I do sometimes not.
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  #9  
Old 12-13-2005, 01:14 AM
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Default Re: Non-standard SB plays: good?

[ QUOTE ]
What's the lowest type of suited hands you guys complete from the SB against a loose limper and an unknown BB? I limp all suited kings, Q5s, J6s, T7s, is this about right? I'll limp connectors down to about 65s and 1 gappers down to about 86s.

[/ QUOTE ]

My full experimental range includes any suited K, Q, or J, T4s+, and 86s+, 87s+, and 96s. Against more aggressive blinds, I tighten up some.

Notice I don't go very low with suited connectors. The trick is that against passive blinds, you don't have much implied odds, so you may get free cards to make your hand, but you won't get paid for it. Stick with hands that have high card strength and bet practically every flop.
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