Stud 8: 3 low with 3 to straight or flush on 5th or a pair

[Paul77]

I have my own thoughts on this pesky hand but was wondering what the forum thought on stud 8 hands where you are looking at three to a good low but have caught brick-brick and have a three-straight and/or flush draw on fifth street or pair. Under what situations is a call a good idea? I tend to be tight unless I have something like A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], am late to act and have a very crowded pot that has gotten quite large, or have a situation where I have a pair, good three-low and three-straight and/or three-flush. Perhaps this is too tight?

The situation came up twice tonight while playing $6/$12 at Canterbury Park. Other pesky hand examples (not from the game tonight specifically) include hands such as 4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]9. Again, the questions I ask myself are 1) how live are my cards, 2) can I scoop this pot if I get lucky and catch; 3) how big is the pot; 4) What are my opponents drawing to, 5) what are my three low cards - A35 is obviously much better than 578.

Any feedback would be appreciated. I just want to make sure I'm not missing something, or playing too tight or loose. Obviously I will not chase with just any good three low cards, but when facing in-between situations it's nice to get feedback.

Thanks,
Paul

[benwood]

These are no decision hands.Throw them away.

[Paul77]

>>These are no decision hands.Throw them away.

Okay. As I said, I do not want to paint the impression that these hands are played by me very often; rather under just rare circumstances. Perhaps a different example would be a big pair? Hellmuth mentions this in his book. Interestingly, on page 326, he states it is "OK to call two bets" with A45Q on fourth street. Call me too tight, but even with three wheel cards and the ace, I have a tough time calling two bets unless I'm at an incredibly loose table. On the same hand, he says to fold if you catch a 9, T, J or K; obviously not folding if you make open queens. With open queens if I felt I could vastly narrow the field or win the pot right there based on what the boards looked like (bricks for the lows, no aggression from an ace) I would bet.

Thanks for your thoughts; again I rarely play such hands, but under a very rare circumstance I'm trying to wonder if a situation can come up where you will see sixth.

Regards,
Paul

[Andy B]

The stud/8 chapter in Hellmuth's book isn't that bad, but the advice you cite is off the mark. It is usually best to fold such hands for one bet, let alone two. As for your fifth-street question, the pot is rarely so large on fifth that you should be considering calling a bet with hands as weak as that. You're not calling raises when you catch bananas on fourth, are you?

[Paul77]

You're not calling raises when you catch bananas on fourth, are you?

Of course not, didn't you read that section in my e-book? [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]) I'm even very cautious about calling one bet when the brick comes on fourth; I want a three-straight or three-flush to go with it, or to be up against a week low draw (87, 86, etc.).

I appreciate the advice on the hands on fifth street especially; these don't come up in SS2 or Zee's book, and a situation where I'd call with a three low with runner-runner for a straight, flush, or a small pair are quite rare, as the risk isn't worth the reward. For some reason part of me thought I was being too tight.

[imported_getfunky]

the standard play is to never go past 5th without a low draw, if you are in fact going low .. 6789k - i'd call one bet, and so with a 4 flush .. here's the problem with calling to hit runner, runner because of the pot size - the reason the pot is so big is that two or more players have strong hands, so expect to be reamed w/jamming if you proceed.