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  #41  
Old 10-12-2005, 06:54 PM
Luv2DriveTT Luv2DriveTT is offline
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Default Re: Annie Duke\'s book: anyone read it?

[ QUOTE ]
Hi Tom:

You can't get the exact formula out of Amazon but it is some sort of weighted average representing recent sales of all books in their inventory. So when Positively Fifth Street went to 2, it meant that only Harry Potter was outselling it at that point in time. Also, for their best selling books, these ranks are updated every hour. For their poorer selling books, they get updated every month. They have ranks on over 3 million books.

[/ QUOTE ]

It should be noted that more than one magazine can have the same Amazon ranking at the same time. There is an article on tthe ranking methodology here.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
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  #42  
Old 10-12-2005, 06:54 PM
Leavenfish Leavenfish is offline
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Default Re: Annie Duke\'s book: anyone read it?

Yes, I have read it.

Actually, I started reading and decided to listen to the CD where Annie reads the book--I have a long commute.

It is a perfectly fine read. It's basically an autobiography on how she got to where she is today, what has shaped her as a person and a poker player. This is mixed in among some of her recounting of some of the events she has participated in.

I see nothing to be critical about and do not understand some of the criticism leveled at it.

I must say however that I would love to know who the 'online tormenter' she refers to is. Any ideas?

---Leavenfish
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  #43  
Old 10-12-2005, 07:31 PM
benfranklin benfranklin is offline
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Default Re: Annie Duke\'s book: anyone read it?

[ QUOTE ]

I must say however that I would love to know who the 'online tormenter' she refers to is. Any ideas?

---Leavenfish

[/ QUOTE ]

What, have you been living in a cave? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Hint: Name pro player, initials D. N.
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  #44  
Old 10-12-2005, 10:01 PM
Mason Malmuth Mason Malmuth is offline
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Default Re: Annie Duke\'s book: anyone read it?

Hi Luv:

I read the article plus a couple of other article that "your article" links to. It's updated my knowledge but is still essentially as I understand things. What Michael Craig writes, as confirmed by these articles, is way off base.

Thanks again,

Mason
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  #45  
Old 10-13-2005, 12:26 AM
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Default Re: Annie Duke\'s book: anyone read it?

Read this old post from RGP.
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  #46  
Old 10-13-2005, 05:55 PM
Leavenfish Leavenfish is offline
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Default Re: Annie Duke\'s book: anyone read it?

Ah! Most amusing...I'll just bet he's never gone off on a man like that.

Interestingly, she doesn't name him by name
in the book. Doesn't even say anything bad about him as I recall.

---Leavenfish
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  #47  
Old 10-21-2005, 12:52 AM
MikeCraig MikeCraig is offline
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Default Re: Annie Duke\'s book: anyone read it?

[ QUOTE ]
I don't agree with Points A, B, or C.

A is simply wrong.

B shows a limited understanding of how publishing actually works. For instance huge money is spent by publishers purchasing placement or other promotions inside the major book chains. Book tours where you may go to a city and sit in some store and sign a few books have virtually no value in terms of book sales. Thus publishers aren't being cheap, they just spend their promotion money on what works and not on what doesn't work.

As for C, while I agree that a PR firm would be very unlikely to do that, it's certainly easy enough for someone to get their own reviews on Amazon and the reviews of their friends. To see this, just go to a poker book that has a fair number of reviews and start reading. You'll see affiliate ads and "Plucked Like a Chicken." I'm not saying that Duke did this, but it can certainly be done very easily.

MM

[/ QUOTE ]

Mason:

A. (Amazon.com rankings mean relatively little, especially outside the top 100.) I'm just repeating what my editor at Warner told me. The editor who told me made it clear that this wasn't just his opinion. He also said that Amazon is vague, secretive, etc. about its data, so it is difficult even to gauge how much Amazon "matters." I don't know anywhere near what you know about publishing and am not trying to represent otherwise. I repeated what a high credibility source told me was the general opinion in the industry. (Maybe I could claim YOU don't know what you're talking about: so many 2+2 books have kick-ass rankings that you might not have sufficient experience in Amazon purgatory to know!)

And remember, I was supporting a point that conspiracy theorists are going too far if they think there's a concerted effort to boost the Amazon.com rankings in this fashion.

B. I don't think we disagree on B (whether publishers would spend for PR to plant fake reviews). We both agree publishers don't want to spend on book tours. (By the way, I think I can top McManus's bad-book-signing experience.) And I agree that they spend big bucks on book store placement; how could I disagree? It's a fact.

Hiring a PR firm to write phony reviews on Amazon.com is, in my opinion, more like paying for a book tour than buying good placement in book stores. It's just my opinion and I'd be surprised if you disagree with me.

C. I got the idea from reading this forum that Annie Duke didn't have enough friends to be responsible for those reviews. I'm sure someone will respond by telling me how awful she is (which proves my point, though it was a rhetorical point). I'm not interested in debating that. I wanted people to understand that it's not reasonable to PRESUME that positive reviews on a book are phony.

Michael Craig
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  #48  
Old 10-21-2005, 01:11 AM
MikeCraig MikeCraig is offline
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Default Re: Annie Duke\'s book: anyone read it?

[ QUOTE ]
Hi Tom:


Publishers like us use their ranks as one of our guides in our decision making. That's why I reacted like I did to Craig's post. At the very least, he as an author is not in the same publishing world as Two Plus Two. Also, it's my experience that when you talk to a book buyer from another company and you can say to them that one of your books has a pretty good Amazon Sales Rank, they will immediately notice the book in case they haven't already, or instantly increase the number of copies they plan to purchase.

So as you can see, a good Amazon Sales Rank is a very important part of our industry.

Best wishes,
Mason

[/ QUOTE ]

Mason:

You're right and I thought I made the point originally that this Amazon stuff, as it was represented to me, was the view from a company like Time Warner, not 2+2 or another specialty publisher. I don't even know who published Duke's book but it was probably a house that puts more weight on rankings of Bookscan and the like than on Amazon (and therefore be less likely to hatch a scheme to skew Amazon rankings with phony reviews).

Incidentally, I'm pleased to hear this from you. Everybody but my publisher tells me that my own Amazon ranking (mostly the mid to high three figures since its June release) is very positive. I'm always looking at the glass as half empty.

As the owner of a specialty publishing co., Mason, maybe I should check out the names on those several hundred (or is it thousand?) positive Amazon reviews by readers of your work to see if it's all part of the Master Plan to manipulate Amazon. In fact, as an admirer of your work (I own 18 copies of 2+2 titles, including 8 of which you are an/the author), maybe I'M in on the conspiracy! Do your tentacles know no limits?

Michael
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  #49  
Old 10-21-2005, 01:19 AM
MikeCraig MikeCraig is offline
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Default Re: Annie Duke\'s book: anyone read it?

[ QUOTE ]
Hi Luv:

I read the article plus a couple of other article that "your article" links to. It's updated my knowledge but is still essentially as I understand things. What Michael Craig writes, as confirmed by these articles, is way off base.

Thanks again,

Mason

[/ QUOTE ]

It's probably useless to argue with you, Mason. You started off attacking me with your superior knowledge of the publishing industry - which is fine; you are, after all, a publisher, and I don't think we even disagreed on very much - and telling me how important Amazon rankings are.

Then you tell me that you've been educated by some book and links about how Amazon works - don't you get the irony that your source itself is ranked 276,000 in Amazon's rankings? - so you can conclude that I'm way off base.

I suppose, therefore, it IS reasonable to presume that the 10 or so books per day a batch of phony reviews might generate is the grease that keeps the Annie Duke Conspiracy working.

Michael Craig
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  #50  
Old 10-21-2005, 08:00 AM
Mason Malmuth Mason Malmuth is offline
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Default Re: Annie Duke\'s book: anyone read it?

Hi Mike:

In my opinion your editor is completely wrong on Point A. Perhaps that's why he's an editor and not a publisher. As a publisher, I deal with these issues all the time and don't believe that an editor would have much experience with them. Also, while some of our books have outstanding sales ranks (and the sales to go along with those ranks) some do not.

I do agree with you on Points B and C.

best wishes,
Mason
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