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  #1  
Old 03-02-2005, 02:32 AM
Pov Pov is offline
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Default medium flopped flush, how do I manage risk vs. reward?

I'm a decent small stakes limit player and I decided to play some NL for a change of pace. Would someone please walk through my thoughts below and tell me if they make sense and what alternatives I should have considered? Please tear into me, I realize I am a NL dunce and my ego can handle it.

Villain is a 60% VP$IP with 17% PFR. So far I have shown down rockets and AQo and am just under doubled up for the max buy-in.


Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (10 handed) converter

MP1 ($21.55)
Hero ($42.75)
MP3 ($8.8)
CO ($19.4)
Button ($45.48)
SB ($34.27)
BB ($22.02)
UTG ($27.5)
UTG+1 ($87.05)
UTG+2 ($32.07)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $0.1.
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, MP1 calls $0.25, Hero calls $0.25, MP3 calls $0.25, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises to $1.5</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP1 folds, Hero calls $1.25, MP3 folds.

I wasn't particularly happy to call here out of position, but I thought the price was worth seeing a flop at 2:1 against this particular opponent. Marginal play or horrible?


Flop: ($3.85) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets $3.99</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $20</font>, Button calls $16.01.

I checked to the raiser figuring he would bet. He didn't disappoint me with a pot sized bet. Here is where my major question arises. I was very confident I was ahead, but I was worried about a singleton diamond out there so I figured I needed to bet big to kill the draw and if he folded I would be satisfied with the pot as it stood. Due to inexperience I didn't realize that a raise to $20 actually gave him much better odds on his draw than I thought it did. I think I got a little gun shy because I wanted enough left in my stack to go all-in with if a non-diamond hit on the turn.


Turn: ($43.85) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero calls $21.25 (All-In), Button calls $21.25.

Okay, so I don't like the board pairing particularly, but I'm probably not folding getting 3:1 on my money if I check and he goes all in so it seemed like a much better idea to do it myself.


River and results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">

River: ($86.35) 5 of diamonds (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $86.35

Hero has 8d 7d (flush, jack high).
Button has Ad Qh (flush, ace high).
Outcome: Button wins $86.35. </font>


Thanks for your assistance all.
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  #2  
Old 03-02-2005, 02:36 AM
Shilly Shilly is offline
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Location: Madison, WI
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Default Re: medium flopped flush, how do I manage risk vs. reward?

You played the hand well after the flop. Don't think risk vs. reward here, think EV. You want him to put as much money in on his draw as he can, as he only has 6 outs if he has a diamond larger than yours.
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  #3  
Old 03-02-2005, 02:48 AM
PoBoy321 PoBoy321 is offline
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Posts: 396
Default Re: medium flopped flush, how do I manage risk vs. reward?

If you think that this is a player who will semi-bluff with a big diamond and are worried about running into this type of hand, you might want to pull a nice little stop and go by just calling his bet and then playing any non-heart turn very hard. Otherwise, I feel that you played this hand absolutely fine.
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  #4  
Old 03-02-2005, 02:51 AM
TrailofTears TrailofTears is offline
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Location: Madison, WI
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Default Re: medium flopped flush, how do I manage risk vs. reward?

Looks good to me. You played it pretty strongly, which is fine. He just caught a card and there is nothing you can do about that (and if there is, please share the secret).

-Trail
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  #5  
Old 03-02-2005, 02:54 AM
kamjah kamjah is offline
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Default Re: medium flopped flush, how do I manage risk vs. reward?

I don't know, but i gotta say the villain here had some balls. I would have been outa there with that massive re-raise. Was the villain actually getting correct odds to call this re-raise? I thought since villain put 4 bucks into the pot, making the pot about 8 bucks, plus another four from hero's call minus the re-raise making it 12 in the pot before the re-raise. is 16 bucks on top of his raise giving him the right odds to call?
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  #6  
Old 03-02-2005, 02:59 AM
xorbie xorbie is offline
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Default Re: medium flopped flush, how do I manage risk vs. reward?

I would re-raise this to the pot, which is to say make it $16 to go (with $8 in the pot and $4 to call, so a raise of $12 more). This way he is not getting odds to another diamond, and you have more to bet with on the turn ($25 into a $35 pot is over 2/3, instead of the less than 1/2 that your turn is).

It also means you lose less if a diamond comes on the turn, and you are sure he has one, and can get away from the hand (although you might be committed anyway).
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  #7  
Old 03-02-2005, 03:06 AM
PoBoy321 PoBoy321 is offline
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Default Re: medium flopped flush, how do I manage risk vs. reward?

[ QUOTE ]
Was the villain actually getting correct odds to call this re-raise?

[/ QUOTE ]

Not by a long shot. Unless the villain thought that his overcards/gutshot draw were good, in which case he's a favorite over a hand like say KJ, but in all honesty, this villain didn't have balls. He was stupid.
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  #8  
Old 03-02-2005, 03:10 AM
xorbie xorbie is offline
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Default Re: medium flopped flush, how do I manage risk vs. reward?

Villian either doesn't know what odds are or figures his A, K and Q outs are good.
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