Is Top Pair Weak Kicker Any Good Here?

colgin · #1 09-19-2005, 09:08 AM

Villain is a TAG and the only other good player at the table.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP calls, 1 fold, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (3 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, MP raises, SB folds, Hero 3-bets, MP calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, MP raises, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 7.50 BB

JoshuaD · #2 09-19-2005, 09:45 AM

I don't think I like the flop 3-bet. I tend to just call here with a weak kicker and let him do my betting for me. I'm a little less comfortable doing that now because we're OOP and might miss a bet on the river, so I'm not sure about the flop.

Betting that turn is a bad idea. You're either splitting or worse than him now, unless he's got one of the draws (which is unlikely, because he raised CO out of the pot: Is CO a big loose passive? If not, we can be pretty sure the TAG has either a K or a J on the flop)

I'm not sure what MP's open-limping range is there, but I think it's alot of the high suited connectors and low pairs: Hands like JT and 66. I'm really tempted to just check/fold this turn. It looks like we're either splitting or losing. In such a small pot we have to split half the time for calling down to be profitable, I don't think we do that.

I'm tempted to just check/fold the turn. I know it sounds really weak tight, but it also seems right to me.

colgin · #3 09-19-2005, 10:05 AM

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I don't think I like the flop 3-bet.

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Given that villain open-limped (which I suppose belies my statement that he is a good TAG to some degree) I thought a drawing hand like 9T, QT or two [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]s were certainly possible and I thought this villain was capable of semi-bluff raising here (and then taking a free card if I continued and checked the turn). My usual defense with a made hand is to either three-bet or call and bet a sagfe turn. Here I three-bet and when he just called I felt I needed to follow-through to protect my hand in case he was, in fact, on a draw.

When I got raised I felt my hand couldn't possibly be good and that I was looking at a split pot at best.

JoshuaD · #4 09-19-2005, 10:12 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't think I like the flop 3-bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

Given that villain open-limped (which I suppose belies my statement that he is a good TAG to some degree) I thought a drawing hand like 9T, QT or two [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]s were certainly possible and I thought this villain was capable of semi-bluff raising here (and then taking a free card if I continued and checked the turn). My usual defense with a made hand is to either three-bet or call and bet a sagfe turn. Here I three-bet and when he just called I felt I needed to follow-through to protect my hand in case he was, in fact, on a draw.

When I got raised I felt my hand couldn't possibly be good and that I was looking at a split pot at best.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the chances villian has a draw here are really diminished because he pushed SB out of the pot.

colgin · #5 09-19-2005, 10:27 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't think I like the flop 3-bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

Given that villain open-limped (which I suppose belies my statement that he is a good TAG to some degree) I thought a drawing hand like 9T, QT or two [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]s were certainly possible and I thought this villain was capable of semi-bluff raising here (and then taking a free card if I continued and checked the turn). My usual defense with a made hand is to either three-bet or call and bet a sagfe turn. Here I three-bet and when he just called I felt I needed to follow-through to protect my hand in case he was, in fact, on a draw.

When I got raised I felt my hand couldn't possibly be good and that I was looking at a split pot at best.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the chances villian has a draw here are really diminished because he pushed SB out of the pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good point.

Noodles · #6 09-19-2005, 10:46 AM

hmm interesting what you did,3 betting the flop as you tihnk he is on a draw,but i dont like it.
there are so many draws out there and so many hands he could 3 bet with that i think 3 beting the flop is dangerous,
any 9,10 ace,6,j could give him a better hand,
i rather call the flop and call down,if he checks turn then bet river i suppose if nothing dangerous hits,

your hand may be best on the flop right now,but you dont have many outs do you,

i think the turn fold is good though