A Quick Pre-flop Question

[colgin]

The following hypothetical pre-flop question is paraphrased from a recent hold 'em book. Since the book is aimed at mid-to-high I am posting it here.

8-handed $15/30 game. You open-raise in the CO with AJo. The button, a true rock who just recently joined the table, three-bets and it is folded to a maniac in the BB, who caps it.

Do you fold, call or raise. Also, do you think it is close. Finally, if you call here, what hands, if any, that you would have opened with under identical circumstances would you now fold.

[illegit]

No one wants to 5 bet?!

[Monty Cantsin]

Call. Call flop. Raise Turn. Ship It!

Figures the one I got perfect would be "wrong".

I had more problems with hand 2 Question 4.

/mc

[Luv2DriveTT]

I call. The maniac's raise means nothing, the button doesn't know the maniac is a maniac and therefore will be scared by the 3 bet... unless he has AA, KK button is calling and not raising.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

[colgin]

[ QUOTE ]
I call. The maniac's raise means nothing, the button doesn't know the maniac is a maniac and therefore will be scared by the 3 bet... unless he has AA, KK button is calling and not raising.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

The book gave that answer as well noting that while the rock's three-bet meant a real hand, you are getting 5:1 pot odds to call.

I voted fold (although I thought it was close) because while you are getting 5:1 odds, you have to ask yourself odds to flop what kind of hand.

With the rock in the game with a real hand you may be loking to flop a hand that wll have bad reverse implied odds for you. That is somehwat offset by the fact that maniac will likely pay you off when you hit and can get the hand HU against him.

Perhaps my thinking is weak which I why I posted the poll.

[illegit]

[ QUOTE ]
I call. The maniac's raise means nothing, the button doesn't know the maniac is a maniac and therefore will be scared by the 3 bet... unless he has AA, KK button is calling and not raising.


[/ QUOTE ]
Button has no choice but to call and not raise; it's been capped. Button 3-bet.

[DcifrThs]

you are thinking in isolation.

the way to get better, much better, is to use examples from the books as starting points. fan it out, instead of AJo, give yourself a random hand and now say "what is the minimum hand with which i would call here?"

do this for many examples and you'll start being able to understand poker well.

-Barron

[colgin]

[ QUOTE ]
you are thinking in isolation.

the way to get better, much better, is to use examples from the books as starting points. fan it out, instead of AJo, give yourself a random hand and now say "what is the minimum hand with which i would call here?"

do this for many examples and you'll start being able to understand poker well.

-Barron

[/ QUOTE ]

Barron,

This is, of course, a great point and something I do try to do. I suppose that a poll wasn't the best mechanism here since it foucses just on the one situation. However, if you look at the inital post I was hoping others would chime in with what hands they would or would not play here.

I have my own ideas. With a rock behind me Iwould have opened fairly light from the CO. But when the rock cmes alive and it is two betsback to me I am calling with any pair with which I opened and any two suited Broadway cards. I am mucking lower suited connectors and the worse non-suited broadway hands like AJo and ATo.

[Victor]

since button is a true rock the likelihood of him havingg aa or kk is super high. rocks 3bet at most aa, kk, qq, ak. you are getting at 11.5:2 with a dominated unsuited hand stuck between a maniac and a rock marked with an overpair (most rocks have enough jones to play big cards big).

im chuckin here.

another interesting situation. you open from the co with ak and a maniac 3bets the button and a super rock 4bets from the bb. i chuck there as well.

[DeeJ]

[ QUOTE ]
you open from the co with ak and a maniac 3bets the button and a super rock 4bets from the bb. i chuck there as well.

[/ QUOTE ]

super rock doesn't 4bet with JJ or QQ ??