The legend of neverwin

[eastbay]

Is someone going to tell this bedtime story, or what?

eastbay

[Nagoo81]

Once upon a time, there was a smart computer science guy who came up with an idea for an automated program that would play high stakes poker on PokerStars for him.....

[ipp147]

Hi eastbay,

There is a thread starting by snakehead regarding online earn etc. Somewhere amongst it Mr Diablo states that the long run is longer than everyone thinks.

My 2 cents. Ran a bankroll up very quickly through good(ish) play and very good luck. He now seems to have run it down very quickly as well.

[mmbt0ne]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">En réponse à:</font><hr />
Once upon a time, there was a smart computer science guy who came up with an idea for an automated program that would play high stakes poker on PokerStars for him.....

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I thought this was neverlose, who played high limit short-handed HE, and O/8 on Stars.

Neverwin had a lot of money, went broke, and now pretends to be other people to ask for money.

[CCx]

[ QUOTE ]
My 2 cents. Ran a bankroll up very quickly through good(ish) play and very good luck. He now seems to have run it down very quickly as well.

[/ QUOTE ]

From what I understand, he built a majority of his bankroll by winning a large tournament that paid out in or around the 6 figure range. (i dont have the information on which tourney it was) He then bought a Benz, made a crappy website for people to jock him on, and then promptly went broke playing 100/200 and god only knows what else. As mmbt0ne said, he now tries to borrow money from people using various 'methods' to continue playing. He has finished in the top 50-ish in a few recent Stars $215's, but not sure if it's his money he's playing with.

[MMMMMM]

[ QUOTE ]
Somewhere amongst it Mr Diablo states that the long run is longer than everyone thinks.

[/ QUOTE ]

Kudos to El Diablo for posting that.

The long run may not be longer than "I" think. I think you probably can't truly reach it in one lifetime (at least playing live only). My guess would be about ten lifetimes of full-time live play might do it.

Most people fail to realize the wide variety of conditions in poker that impact your bottom line.

For instance, the "cards" may break even after a while (meaning you eventually get approximately as many good hands and crap hands as anyone else), but the matchups may not be breaking even until much, much later. That is, your KKK may be up against someone's AAA and your QQQ up against his KKK, whereas his QQQ was up against someone else's JJJ (simplified to illustrate the point. Blackjack may illustrate the point even better, your 17 vs house 18, your 18 vs house 19, your 19 vs house 20, your 20 vs house 21, your 21 vs house 17--whereas someone else with those same exact hands could have been matched in a manner where they won 4/5 of the matchups instead of losing 4/5 of the matchups--with the exact same mix of hands and opposing hands, just in a different hand order. And of course, the much wider variety of possible hands in poker means that the matchups will not even out anywhere nearly as quickly as in blackjack).

Then, the matchups may break even after a much longer while, but the pots may not be breaking even yet (you may be making your biggest winning hands in rather anemic pots). You may also get beat with the 3-outers in the biggest pots, whereas someone else gets beat with 3-outers in the smaller pots but has their hands stand up in the huge pots).

There are even more "hidden" factors that impact overall results (just one more might be the mix of players you frequently play with and how your particular styles interact).

All in all it seems to support an argument for playing at a level which is rather conservative vis-a-vis your bankroll, and more so than most educated players might think.

[J_V]

This really isn't what happened. He made it beating people heads up at all limits for a long time. But he doesn't play much else well.

[Felix_Nietsche]

I don't buy this..... Lee Jones (PokerStars) told me the they "investigated", Neverwin because of some questions they had about him.

Lee did not provide any other details and I did not ask...

[Felix_Nietsche]

oh....and from Lee's response he seemed like he was satisfied about the investigation's results.

[stinkypete]

i think you're talking about neverlose.