Isolating a TAG

crunchy1 · #1 07-26-2005, 10:16 AM

UTG+1 was a TAG. I've been finding success in isolating TAG-type players who limp in EP. Given the type of player they are and the range of hands that this type of player will limp in EP - I find it easy to steal a lot of pots on the flop/turn when my isolation is successful.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 4 folds, Hero raises, 1 fold, BB calls, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (6.50 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, UTG+1 bets, Hero raises, BB folds, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: (5.25 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG+1 bets, Hero calls.

River: (7.25 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG+1 bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 9.25 BB

I was almost positive that I was ahead with top pair on the flop. The turn stop'n'go was confusing to say the least. I feel sick reviewing this hand and looking at my call down. Comment/Discuss/Berate. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

brettbrettr · #2 07-26-2005, 10:21 AM

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Given the type of player they are and the range of hands that this type of player will limp in EP

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Do you think that given this the river is a fold?

crunchy1 · #3 07-26-2005, 10:41 AM

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Given the type of player they are and the range of hands that this type of player will limp in EP

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Do you think that given this the river is a fold?

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That's a good question. My range for Villian here was something along the lines of Axs, Kxs, 22-88, possibly suited connectors/one-gaps.

Put yourself in Villian's shoes. What range are you putting me on when I raise PF and raise the flop.

SeaEagle · #4 07-26-2005, 10:55 AM

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My range for Villian here was something along the lines of Axs, Kxs, 22-88, possibly suited connectors/one-gaps.

Put yourself in Villian's shoes. What range are you putting me on when I raise PF and raise the flop.

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So assuming you have a tight image, he's going to put you on a premium hand. And when an AKx flops and you raise him he's going to assume he's in some trouble, since he's not going to have you on a flush draw because you're not raising PF from EP w/ KQs or lower. Agreed?

So based on the range you have him on and the range he presumably has you on, what do you think he's donk betting the turn with?

crunchy1 · #5 07-26-2005, 11:39 AM

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So based on the range you have him on and the range he presumably has you on, what do you think he's donk betting the turn with?

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My turn range for him (in order of likeliehood, IMO): A9s-A2s, K9, K8, 98, 88, 99, JTs, 67s, Kxs. I probably missed a couple but that's close.

I thought I had a a reasonable chance at holding the best hand. And a decent chance to improve if I didn't (including hidden outs to a chop or take the lead). I had position so I was guaranteed to see showdown for 2BBs at the most.

Someone had suggested the idea of raising the turn for a free showdown. I don't think that would be correct here because I want to see a showdown and raising the turn would force me into folding to a 3-bet. I'm not defending my call-call line because I'm not sure that's right either - but, I'm pretty confident that spewing extra chips when you're in a state of confusion isn't a very good idea.

Entity · #6 07-26-2005, 11:53 AM

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So based on the range you have him on and the range he presumably has you on, what do you think he's donk betting the turn with?

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My turn range for him (in order of likeliehood, IMO): A9s-A2s, K9, K8, 98, 88, 99, JTs, 67s, Kxs. I probably missed a couple but that's close.

I thought I had a a reasonable chance at holding the best hand. And a decent chance to improve if I didn't (including hidden outs to a chop or take the lead). I had position so I was guaranteed to see showdown for 2BBs at the most.

Someone had suggested the idea of raising the turn for a free showdown. I don't think that would be correct here because I want to see a showdown and raising the turn would force me into folding to a 3-bet. I'm not defending my call-call line because I'm not sure that's right either - but, I'm pretty confident that spewing extra chips when you're in a state of confusion isn't a very good idea.

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I suggested the idea of raising the turn, but only after you call the flop (and again, this is dependent on whether or not you think TAG is aggressive enough to bet a draw).

After you raise the flop, your turn range is WAY too wide for him. He's got you beat pretty often and while calling down is better than raising (after your flop play), folding is probably better than calling.

This is why I fold A2o after a TAG limps.

Rob

avisco01 · #7 07-26-2005, 04:56 PM

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My turn range for him (in order of likeliehood, IMO): A9s-A2s, K9, K8, 98, 88, 99, JTs, 67s, Kxs. I probably missed a couple but that's close.

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Do TAG's usually play K9, K8 type junk in EP?

SeaEagle · #8 07-26-2005, 10:31 AM

Isn't the idea of isolating the tag to take away the small pot when he misses the flop? I find that when I get played back at, especially in only a semi-aggressive fashion, that the tag actually has a hand. I think I'd have folded the turn here and looked for a better place.

Incidentally, if you've been isolating him enough that it's bugging him, then the donkbet probably shows more strength than a flop 3-bet or a turn c/r.

DemonDeac · #9 07-26-2005, 10:34 AM

based on their PT stats, for the blinds fold enough for this to be a succesfful isolation move most of the time??

crunchy1 · #10 07-26-2005, 10:38 AM

SeaEagle - This is the first time I had the opportunity to isolate him like this.

Deac - I felt certain enough that the blinds would fold out here.