Blind defense

[Guido]

Hi all,

I have been thinking about some typical blind defense situations lately. I still don't play very well in the blinds at least when I look at my results. Suppose you have KJs or AJo or something like that in the BB. The button or CO open raises and it's HU. At these forums most players will 3-bet and bet the flop. The problem I sometimes have with this, is that people will regain initiative by raising the flop and when they bet the turn again it's hard to call when you have nothing. So what about calling preflop? Then you can check-raise a lot of flops because you can represent more hands. Also when you hit, it will be harder to put you on a hand because I will also call with hands like T8s or 98o. So you will have the initiative after the flop and when they raise you on the turn you can safely fold. The problem with that is that when you check-raise a 963r flop and the turn is a jack, queen, king or ace, you will get raised very often on the turn and have to let go.

Both plays have advantages and disadvantages so why do you think one play is better than the other? Or doesn't it matter and is it just a matter of style?

Thanks,

Guido

[MAxx]

Hey Guido.

I tend to 3bet most of the time. My experience at 5/10 is that they tend to believe my BB 3-bets more often than not. Going with my overall impression here, without readily available factual support.... in general i think a subsequent flop and/turn lead tend to win the pot, unless villain has improved. Much more so than them restealing postflop. This maybe much different at 10/20, but I wouldnt know about that.

Sometimes I mix it up with a pf call and an auto flop c/r... but I generally think the pf 3bet is quicker and to the point. This could be highly player dependent/ table image dependant though.

Edit: [ QUOTE ]
The problem I sometimes have with this, is that people will regain initiative by raising the flop and when they bet the turn again it's hard to call when you have nothing.

[/ QUOTE ]

You do have A/K high. That is not always nothing... player dependant.

[ALL1N]

I only 3 bet preflop here if at least one of the following conditions are met:

-opponent is stubborn and playing back will induce excess action.
-it will make my hand easier to play postflop.
-opponent is known to check behind occasionally.

Otherwise I prefer to call and have my hand disguised.

[Sporky]

i like to 3-bet pf against most of the people opening in CO or button because the range of hands can be so big depending on the opponent. if i 3-bet pre flop and bet the flop, i find that a good amount of the time they will fold, unless of course they've hit something decent.

i'm not a huge fan of the smoothcall and c/r the flop because it seems like i risk a little more. from my experience they almost always call 1 sb after the c/r and then i'm forced to bet the turn as a follow through. at that point if they call or raise i'm feeling pretty bad about my spot. also, getting 3-bet on the flop after going for the c/r always hurts.

i feel like out of both situations when they have missed the flop, i will do better with the 3-bet pre flop. i think a lot of people call the extra bet after the c/r just out of anger and disgust to see if the turn helps them. then i have to throw another bet out there on the turn. i also think that sometimes a c/r on flop can scream "hi, i totally missed this."

my blind defense is pretty weak though. i'm interested to hear what everyone else has to say.

[imitation]

[ QUOTE ]
I only 3 bet preflop here if at least one of the following conditions are met:

-opponent is stubborn and playing back will induce excess action.
-it will make my hand easier to play postflop.
-opponent is known to check behind occasionally.

Otherwise I prefer to call and have my hand disguised.

[/ QUOTE ]

Seriously the quality of your posts lately has just been through the roof, what has taken your game to the next level? This is just so spot on. (ofcourse exactly what I was going to say [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[Guido]

it will make my hand easier to play postflop.

So when is this condition met?

Thanks,

Guido

[imitation]

[ QUOTE ]
it will make my hand easier to play postflop.

So when is this condition met?

Thanks,

Guido

[/ QUOTE ]

Well logically against a loose passive player who isn't seeing many showdowns. I think it can be productive against the right aggressive players with the correct table image.

Personally I play alot of my blind defence with relation to table image, and I like calling alot out of position.

[MAxx]

[ QUOTE ]
I only 3 bet preflop here if at least one of the following conditions are met:

-opponent is stubborn and playing back will induce excess action.
-it will make my hand easier to play postflop.
-opponent is known to check behind occasionally.

Otherwise I prefer to call and have my hand disguised.

[/ QUOTE ]

care to expand on this 3 test thought?

1) ok this is pretty straight forward on the excess action
2) IMO 3betting usually leads to easier postflop play
3) what are you saying here? i don't follow but would like to understand your reason here.

Why do you value disguise here, and why do you feel 3betting undisguises your hand vs why you feel calling keeps your hand disguised?

[ALL1N]

When I say that I want my hand to be easier to play postflop, I'm basically saying that I don't want to get pushed off the best hand, and I don't want to have too work hard for my value. I'll be a bit more specific some hands.

I really like 3-betting medium pocket pairs. Having a pair that frequently has 1 or 2 overcards to it, while only 2 outs if behind (usually), I want to be able to get to the river without missing bets, but with the chance to fold if I'm behind. These hands pretty much want one bet to go in on the flop, turn, and river; you don't want to scare off a high-card calldown (especially one with only 3 outs), but you also don't want to get pushed off the best hand. I find that 3-betting preflop achieves this well - people will often get suspicious, and decide that just calling down is less hassle than raising or folding.

I also like 3-betting good kings, primarily for what follows on Axx flops. On Axx, your high card has been promoted, and you've got the best hand a good deal of the time, so always folding isn't right. Checkraising the flop has the problem of spewing chips against an ace who'll wait until the turn to raise, but still having to bet the turn a lot since so few people fold to just a flop checkraise. Calling down is a possibility too and is fine against a maniac, and calling halfway down is obviously a very fragile strategy. You can easily cause yourself to be outplayed by not having the initiative on Axx flops, which can be avoided with a preflop 3-bet.

Another point I made was that I like my hand to be disguised if possible. I'm not trying to be fancy here, I'm just saying that since it's natural to call a lot more hands here than 3-bet, a strong hand is better hidden by just calling. The other way to disguise strength would be by 3-betting weaker hands, like suited connectors, but this is not a great idea simply because I'd likely be putting in bets with the worse hand, headsup, out of position.

Richie

[ALL1N]

Thanks mate [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

I've moved up to 15/30, reduced to just 3 tables, had a good think about my game while hiking the Milford track (southern NZ, a few months ago), and spent even less time on my studies. Probably a bit of all!