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  #1  
Old 11-15-2005, 12:46 AM
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Default Proper play with TPWK?

Newbie here, still trying to get a feel for the proper amount of aggression to use post-flop. Please let me know any mistakes made here.

Table is tightish and relatively passive. SB is a complete idiot with some maniacal tendencies. He'll just as easy 3-bet with 72 as he will with AA.

PokerStars 0.10/0.20 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is BB with 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, Button calls, SB <font color="#A500AF">(idiot)</font> completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (4 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">idiot bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, UTG+1 calls, Button folds, idiot calls.

Trying for the steal here, plain and simple. Failing that, if I can whittle the field down to just me and the idiot, I might have a shot. Since there were no PFR's, I think that at this point MHIG. If I get re-raised, I fold, especially with the straight draw showing. Correct play here? Is the raise a wise thing to do, or should I have just called?

Turn: (5 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">idiot bets</font>, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls.

If this bet came from anyone else, I fold. But this is the village idiot, so I call. I think UTG+1 is on the straight draw, as I don't think he'd call a raise on the flush draw with only 1 spade. If he had 2 spades, then this K would've hit his flush. If he hit, I'd expect a raise, and if it came, I'd fold. Correct move and thinking?

River: (8 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
idiot folds, Hero checks, UTG+1 checks.

I got this far pretty cheap, and I think MHIG but I don't know for sure, and since I don't have a kicker, I choose the cheapest path to showdown. Correct, or should I have bet?

Final Pot: 8 BB
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  #2  
Old 11-15-2005, 01:17 AM
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Default Re: Proper play with TPWK?

The flop is too draw heavy for the raise.

Just fold the flop.

EDIT: And pot too small.
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  #3  
Old 11-15-2005, 01:45 AM
bravos1 bravos1 is offline
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Default Re: Proper play with TPWK?

[ QUOTE ]
The flop is too draw heavy for the raise.

Just fold the flop.

EDIT: And pot too small.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed.

Also to the OP, your kicker is pointles after the river as it doesn't play. You have 2 pair w/ a K kicker.
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  #4  
Old 11-15-2005, 02:31 AM
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Default Re: Proper play with TPWK?

I think this is a classic case of reverse implied odds. Fold the flop, if you are ahead, you're unlikely to get action, and if you do, it will be easy to be drawn out on and you will have to pay big bets when the board is not so favorable.
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  #5  
Old 11-15-2005, 02:35 AM
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Default Re: Proper play with TPWK?

[ QUOTE ]
Also to the OP, your kicker is pointles after the river as it doesn't play. You have 2 pair w/ a K kicker.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm an idiot. Thanks for pointing that out. I really need to pay more attention.
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  #6  
Old 11-15-2005, 02:47 AM
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Default Re: Proper play with TPWK?

again, I'm a newbie also, but here goes...

*grunch*
Raise on flop is okay, but I think most Ts call you here.

I think you're okay to check on the river, though there may be some value from an 8 here, but the Ts won't call.
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  #7  
Old 11-15-2005, 03:24 AM
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Default Re: Proper play with TPWK?

Your flop raise was correct, however you called it "trying to steal", but that's not really what you're doing. You're raising because you either currently have the best hand, in which case you're raising for value, or because you want to force the third player to call two bets cold, in which case it's a protection raise. If UTG+1 has a gutshot draw or low pocket pair, you're making his pot odds too unprofitable to chase his weak draws. Monitoring his reaction to your raise also gives you information on what he may be holding. By the way, if he raises you there, it's hardly an automatic fold. I would call that one extra bet and see what the turn brought. If he is only on two pair you still have a chance to improve on the turn, or at least re-evaluate.

The turn card is scary, and even an idiot can raise with a decent hand. Against this guy, folding is probably not an option so it's call or raise. Raising here gets you in trouble if UTG+1 hit something or if the idiot actually has a hand this time. A 3-bet here would be bad for you. I would just call it and see what the third player does. If he raises, I could feel confident I'm beat (keep in mind that the K also set up an easy one-card re-draw to the flush so your hand value drops considerably).

On the river you mentioned your possible bad kicker, but you're not reading the board correctly. At this point, if he has, say, Q9, then you both have two pair (nines and sevens) with a K kicker. Because he was still timid when that K hit, and he has done nothing but passively call all hand, you absolutely fire a bet out here. Odds are you either have the best hand or at worse split the pot if he has a nine. Well that's my two cents! Good luck!
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  #8  
Old 11-15-2005, 04:09 AM
bottomset bottomset is offline
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Default Re: Proper play with TPWK?

easy flop fold
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  #9  
Old 11-15-2005, 04:56 AM
ArturiusX ArturiusX is offline
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Default Re: Proper play with TPWK?

[ QUOTE ]
easy flop fold

[/ QUOTE ]

Easy is going a bit to far, don't you think?
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  #10  
Old 11-15-2005, 07:26 AM
aK13 aK13 is offline
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Default Re: Proper play with TPWK?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
easy flop fold

[/ QUOTE ]

Easy is going a bit to far, don't you think?

[/ QUOTE ]

Nope.
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