|
|
#11
07-06-2005, 10:18 PM
|
|||
|
|||
Re: Simon Trumper\'s reply on ESPN
[ QUOTE ]
The argument over whether it was two or five or ten minutes is a stupid distraction from the central issue. TWO MINUTES IS WAY, WAY TOO LONG TO STALL WITH THE NUTS. [/ QUOTE ] Not if it gets you chips you wouldn't have gotten otherwise. You know better. 
|
|
#12
07-06-2005, 10:27 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Simon Trumper\'s reply on ESPN
[ QUOTE ]
2 minutes is pushing it if you're calling with the nuts. [/ QUOTE ] If you're just calling with the nuts, 2 minutes is obviously horrible form. 2 seconds is probably already starting to get a little long.
|
|
#13
07-06-2005, 10:32 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Simon Trumper\'s reply on ESPN
[ QUOTE ]
The argument over whether it was two or five or ten minutes is a stupid distraction from the central issue. TWO MINUTES IS WAY, WAY TOO LONG TO STALL WITH THE NUTS. [/ QUOTE ] The argument over whether it was 2 or 10 along with whether it was a slow roll or not is relevant to Simon's honour. And that argument is over. All reliable witnesses side with Simon. If Barry had just complained to some random friend, no big deal. But he complained and exagerrated to an ESPN reporter. The 2 or 10 is definitely relevant. And if you think 2 is too long, too bad. Barry made a bad play and everyone knows it including him. He's a great player but even the greats make mistakes. Barry made 3 mistakes. Betting. Calling. Yapping.
|
|
#16
07-06-2005, 10:44 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
\"Every word he wrote is dead-on.\"
Maybe not so "dead-on" as all of that.
Exactly how much time is the proper amount of time, Paul, to get a knowledgeable and feared foe to put in the rest of his chips when you have the nuts? Just so I know what the maximum is, if I'm ever lucky enough to be in that situation? Barry talked as if he planned on folding to a raise, then called off the rest of his chips. If it was only 2 minutes, as last estimated, then I'm not sure I can side with you on the egregious error.
|
|
#17
07-06-2005, 10:48 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Simon Trumper\'s reply on ESPN
[ QUOTE ]
The argument over whether it was two or five or ten minutes is a stupid distraction from the central issue. TWO MINUTES IS WAY, WAY TOO LONG TO STALL WITH THE NUTS. [/ QUOTE ] You're painting the picture with way too broad of a brush, here. Just because he had "the nuts" doesn't mean he can't go into the tank and think how he can extract the most chips. The way Simon seems to put it, Barry called off all his chips to prove Simon was stalling with the nuts. Hindsight being twenty-twenty, of course, any poker player would do the EXACT SAME THING if they could get Barry to call off all his chips in that scenario. Do you think Barry is calling off all his chips of Simon raises all in after thinking for, say, 10 seconds? I highly doubt it. He can come on here and provide a methodical reason for calling off all his chips here, but I fail to see one. Villain checks, hero bets over half his stack, and villain checkraises all-in. To give rough math, that is 99% "Barry is screwed", and 1% "Bluff of the century". This can be a scenario where we agree to disagree, but the fact Simon had "the nuts" did not have a significant impact on Simon's decision. The idea, at this point, was to get the remaining chips Barry had. If Simon felt that by tactfully waiting out and thinking for 2 minutes would get him those extra chips more often than thinking 20 seconds, the WHY NOT DO IT? Ethics aside, that's another 10,000 chips or so, which is another third of an average stack. That's enormous. And well worth thinking over, in my opinion.
|
|
#18
07-06-2005, 11:13 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Simon Trumper\'s reply on ESPN
Barney Boatman is apparently saying between 30 & 60 seconds. Whatever. I think the real point here is that Mr. Greenstein realised he'd played the hand incorrectly (raising after the check committed him to the hand). I don't know about you, but when playing poker even the most savage bad beat does not compare to *me* making an avoidable mistake and being punished for it. In front of the computer screen the obvious reaction is to drop kick the cat, drink a quart of drain cleaner and shove red hot wire under your fingernails. In live tournaments these props are not (yet) available, hence Mr. Greenstein attempting to shift the blame and drop kick Simon 'the cat' Trumper. And the psychological reason why the time felt so long and he saw a slowroll.
|
|
#19
07-06-2005, 11:34 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Simon Trumper\'s reply on ESPN
So is Simon the #1 Omaha player in Europe, or the #2 Omaha player in Europe? Wasn't quite clear.
Honestly, when you get the the point where you're saying "no, it wasnt 10 minutes, it was 5 minutes maybe", and the pot is offering your opponent ludicrously good odds, youre off the deep end. Barry can kind of get territorial, but I think he's right here.
|
|
#20
07-06-2005, 11:43 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Simon Trumper\'s reply on ESPN
[ QUOTE ]
WHY NOT DO IT? Ethics aside [/ QUOTE ] You answered your own question. These are the "brilliant" plays that have cut out several hands an hour since stalling became a regular tactic. As people seem to view it as "smart, tricky play" rather than the prisoner's dilemma defection that it is, we'll eventually have to lengthen the rulebook yet again. I don't think it's something to be proud of when new rules have to be introduced to deal with your brand of lameness.
|
 |
|
|
Linear Mode
