Some general thoughts on bankroll management...

[Rudbaeck]

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I don’t think the “300BB” rule which is commonly accepted is anywhere near what most players should have for their current limit,

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I quite liked your post in general. Specifically though you do not understand the 300BB bankroll "guideline". It is based on a specific % ROR that an individual deemed acceptable based on a 1 BB per hour winning poker player at that specific limit. When you understand how the 300BB guideline was computed and why you will see that it is enough.

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I don't know if you understand the risk-of-ruin calculations or not, but you failed to point out what OP doesn't understand.

300BB is enough for a starting point for someone who has proven himself to be a 3BB/100 winner (1BB/hr live play) and who reinvests every single won penny in his bankroll!

If you calculate your bankroll using BruceZ's formula, or Mason's "win rate" isn't your win rate really, it's the amount re-invested in the bankroll. See it as your bankrolls win rate if you like.

Bankrolls must always grow. Capital is only healthy when it grows.

And lets face it, even a 1000BB bankroll isn't restrictive. You will still move up limits faster than your playing skill is improving unless you hit a prolonged cold run of cards.

If you're living on poker then you also need enough money in a 'living roll' to cover a stretch of 50,000+ hands where you don't make a dime. For an online 8-tabler this isn't a big sum in comparison to your bankroll, for someone just breaking into the mid limits live this is probably a real big sum of money. (180 working days without making a dime!)

To pull numbers out of my ass, but to give a clue: You'll probably see a 300BB downswing every few hundred thousand hands. You'll probably see a 500BB downswing every few million hands. You'll probably not see a 1000BB downswing if you multitable from now until you die. (All assuming you're playing in a game you are regularly beating for 3BB/100.)

If you want to take a shot, say at another betting form or another form of poker, you can use Kelly Betting, as outlined in the July 2+2 Magazine. This is also a great way to quickly rebuild a bankroll if for some horrible reason you bust. (You need to pay for chemotherapy? It gets stolen? You bet the entire bankroll on 13 while high as a kite?)

For limit you're probably going to go with a ~100BB bankroll if Kelly Betting.

Kelly Betting is also good if you're just goofing off with poker.

Observant players might notice that the various OICs all come pretty close to Kelly Betting, and those with good memories know that atleast one 2+2'er leapt from 3/6 to 15/30 due to an OIC.

[ggbman]

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I don’t think the “300BB” rule which is commonly accepted is anywhere near what most players should have for their current limit,

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I quite liked your post in general. Specifically though you do not understand the 300BB bankroll "guideline". It is based on a specific % ROR that an individual deemed acceptable based on a 1 BB per hour winning poker player at that specific limit. When you understand how the 300BB guideline was computed and why you will see that it is enough.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know if you understand the risk-of-ruin calculations or not, but you failed to point out what OP doesn't understand.

300BB is enough for a starting point for someone who has proven himself to be a 3BB/100 winner (1BB/hr live play) and who reinvests every single won penny in his bankroll!

If you calculate your bankroll using BruceZ's formula, or Mason's "win rate" isn't your win rate really, it's the amount re-invested in the bankroll. See it as your bankrolls win rate if you like.

Bankrolls must always grow. Capital is only healthy when it grows.

And lets face it, even a 1000BB bankroll isn't restrictive. You will still move up limits faster than your playing skill is improving unless you hit a prolonged cold run of cards.

If you're living on poker then you also need enough money in a 'living roll' to cover a stretch of 50,000+ hands where you don't make a dime. For an online 8-tabler this isn't a big sum in comparison to your bankroll, for someone just breaking into the mid limits live this is probably a real big sum of money. (180 working days without making a dime!)

To pull numbers out of my ass, but to give a clue: You'll probably see a 300BB downswing every few hundred thousand hands. You'll probably see a 500BB downswing every few million hands. You'll probably not see a 1000BB downswing if you multitable from now until you die. (All assuming you're playing in a game you are regularly beating for 3BB/100.)

If you want to take a shot, say at another betting form or another form of poker, you can use Kelly Betting, as outlined in the July 2+2 Magazine. This is also a great way to quickly rebuild a bankroll if for some horrible reason you bust. (You need to pay for chemotherapy? It gets stolen? You bet the entire bankroll on 13 while high as a kite?)

For limit you're probably going to go with a ~100BB bankroll if Kelly Betting.

Kelly Betting is also good if you're just goofing off with poker.

Observant players might notice that the various OICs all come pretty close to Kelly Betting, and those with good memories know that atleast one 2+2'er leapt from 3/6 to 15/30 due to an OIC.

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But i still would maintain that when moving up, you have absolutley no reason to assume you are a 3bb/100 winner at the next limit. Would you agree with this? Also, i readily concede many people understand the mathamatics of ROR better than myself, but my general sentiment is that a lot of people don't know their WR and end up playing with insufficient bankrolls.

[Rudbaeck]

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But i still would maintain that when moving up, you have absolutley no reason to assume you are a 3bb/100 winner at the next limit. Would you agree with this? Also, i readily concede many people understand the mathamatics of ROR better than myself, but my general sentiment is that a lot of people don't know their WR and end up playing with insufficient bankrolls.

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I'd go so far as to say that if you play a limit online and you play 4 tables and get to a win rate of 3BB/100 you've spent far too long at that level.

Yes, people play underrolled. But after a few humbling wipes they learn the error of their ways.

And, to be honest, I don't lose sleep over winning players busting out and getting fed up with poker. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]