6max, hows this turn play?

RustyCJ · #1 11-20-2005, 06:52 PM

Very new to 6 max, keep that in mind.

No read on villian here, only had 5 hands with him.

On the flop I'm not sure if he is betting the K or not, I was nervous about raising the flop. Half the time the donks have the K and half the time they have the 9 or 7.

Do I need to make a decision on the flop either to raise or fold?

When the A fell on the turn I thought I could raise here, he *might* fold and if he just calls I can check the river.

PokerStars 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (4 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is UTG with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
Hero raises, 2 folds, BB calls.

Flop: (4.50 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (3.25 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets, Hero raises, BB calls.

River: (7.25 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 7.25 BB

istewart · #2 11-20-2005, 06:58 PM

I would probably just call down barring a truly awful card like the T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] maybe. I don't like the raise at all. He'll never fold a hand better than jacks 4-handed.

shadow29 · #3 11-20-2005, 07:02 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I would probably just call down barring a truly awful card like the T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] maybe. I don't like the raise at all. He'll never fold a hand better than jacks 4-handed.

[/ QUOTE ]

Shillx · #4 11-20-2005, 07:04 PM

This situation is really quite simple. We raise if...

1) He will fold a better hand. Keep in mind that he doesn't have to fold anywere near 100% of the time to make it correct.

2) He will fold a hand that he shouldn't if he knew what we held. For example if he would fold a flush draw to a turn raise (not going to happen but that is an example here) then it begins to make more sense.

3) It is for value. Well it wasn't for value in this case since we checked behind on the river.

4) He will give up on a bricked river if he was bluffing or semi-bluffing the whole way. This is a bad assumption to make against a typical player. When in doubt, assume that default players will bluff too much. So against better players you have to get that raise in on the turn. Against poor players who will bet busted draws everytime, you can just call them down.

Brad

RustyCJ · #5 11-20-2005, 07:10 PM

my thought was, if there is *some* chance he might fold and he doesn't 3-bet me on the turn, which a turn raise will freeze up a LOT of people and he'll check the river to me, I get to see the river at the same price as if I called down.

milesdyson · #6 11-20-2005, 07:12 PM

[ QUOTE ]
my thought was, if there is *some* chance he might fold and he doesn't 3-bet me on the turn, which a turn raise will freeze up a LOT of people and he'll check the river to me, I get to see the river at the same price as if I called down.

[/ QUOTE ]
well that's the thing - you shouldn't be calling down here without a very solid read.

RustyCJ · #7 11-20-2005, 07:17 PM

[ QUOTE ]
well that's the thing - you shouldn't be calling down here without a very solid read.

[/ QUOTE ]

And so I asked in my post, should I be making a decision on the flop to fold or raise?

#8 11-20-2005, 07:31 PM

I would've raised the flop.

If he 3bets then bets out on the turn, then you're pretty much screwed and can safely fold.

1 SB finds out enough info to save you 2 BB.

RustyCJ · #9 11-20-2005, 07:36 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I would've raised the flop.

If he 3bets then bets out on the turn, then you're pretty much screwed and can safely fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

His flop bet froze ME up and I just called, I didn't expect it and wasn't sure where I stood.

#10 11-20-2005, 07:45 PM

[ QUOTE ]
His flop bet froze ME up and I just called, I didn't expect it and wasn't sure where I stood.

[/ QUOTE ]

That was the intent. He could've been doing it with a Flush Draw, a Straight Draw, or even bottom pair.

With a King or better, he would've been much more likely to Check-Raise.

The donk bet heads-up on a flop like that usually means "I have a hand, but not a really strong one".

With multiple people in the hand, it usually means "I have a weak King".