Effects of Gambling on Economy

[LikesToLose]

[ QUOTE ]
Perhaps... just maybe... technology should be used to replace all the grunt jobs and people shouldn't work except were absolutely neccesary.

Then we should build a utopia and all enjoy our few decades on the planet.

Rather than make our old folks do menial work! Ya think?

Sincerely,
AA

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This may be the dumbest thing I've ever read. I can feel my IQ dropping just from quoting it.

Let me ask you this: What makes you think we haven't already achieved this state of utopia?

I know you don't feel like you live in a utopia. It feels like you have almost nothing, but compared to much of the world, we are all FILTHY rich. What, you have heat, 1 family in most homes, and food? Air conditioning? Color TV and cable for people on welfare?

In your little fantasy world, who would make the robots to replace the workers and how much money should they cost? Or are they just donated? If it is donated, why would anyone work at the robot factory or any of its suppliers. Running factory machines and mining the metal is someone's hobby? Who decides who has to work at the few 'absolutely neccesary' jobs and who sits on their ass all day? What does the worker get for his/her contribution and who pays for it?

How would it be decided who got what robot? I would rather have one that is at most 4 years old to do the lawn work for me. Others will have to make due with my used ones. I think that's fair. How old of a car do you drive?

The problem with your utopia world is that the earth's resources and the production capabilty of the world has limits, while human desire does not have any such problems. We want more than what we have. We all want to be the Joneses that everyone is trying to keep us with instead of the other way around. Since there is no possible way that everyone can every need satisfied, there has to be a method to determine who gets what. Capitalism, while not perfect, is the best known method to do that.

Gotta go now, but more fun later, I'm sure.
Mark

[AmericanAirlines]

But everyone has to want it and actively pursue it.

As long as folks run around saying "It can't be done"... well... it won't be!

[img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

But, problem is, how are you going to convince the few at the top (that we all seem to listen to) to change things for the better of all when they are already getting the best of it.

Well, I doubt talk will work. So we're back to waiting for an overarching crisis to occur wherein wealth doesn't mean anything, or revolting.

[img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

I do believe it was something called the "Liberal Management Reform" wherein Western leaders realized they had to figure out just how much wealth to let flow downward to avoid a revolt. Seems here in the US that our leaders are pretty darn good at walking that line. Compare to Russia where the leaders weren't so good at it and many revolutions based around economic theories have occured.

I'm simply saying we should task our leaders with taking us the majority where we really want to go (long happy unencumbered lives, etc.) instead of where thier egos want us to go. (And we seem to follow. Are we a bunch of lemmings or what?)

Sincerely,
AA

[Roy Munson]

With 6 billion people, give or take 1 or 2, you will likely have about 6 billion different ideas as to what constitutes "Utopia".

The world in which we live is chaotic and any attempts to plan or force order and structure are more than likely to create further chaos.

Accept, enjoy and revel in the random nature of life. We are all going to die soon anyway, even the ultra wealthy.

[AmericanAirlines]

Hi EastBay,
Well... much of what you say is true. And years ago at a teamwork get together for United Technologies (Circa 1994) I said that one ought to start at the bottom and work up to know the business inside and out. (Parallel to your soldier/general concept).

But, look at how it really goes (in business and even in the military). Shave @sses are at the top. That'd be academy grads in military and Harvard/Wharton/Yalies in Corp. USA.

In corp. USA actually many top dogs are Mckinsey Consulting or Boston Consulting alumni. Both of which, of course, recruit from the Ivy League set. Heck McKinsey even has a Web Page aimed at recruiting just Harvard grads!

So working up is (IMHO) patented working class dogma. And a waste of one's life in most cases. To bad so many of us are taught that idea by working class adults around us when we are kids.

The point of my para-phrases is to point out that I'm not interested in political methodologies and game playing. To me the whole point of becoming rich is to never have to be a subordinate to anyone else's game. So if wanting to maintain one's dignity along the way is a red flag, Oh well... guess I'm out of luck there.

So essentially I threw those terms out to head off certain suggestions.

To me "teamwork" is a red flag. And truly false in corp. USA. After all salaries are not equal among team members nor are they adjusted on a team basis. Each paycheck is cut to an individual.

"Teamwork" to me is something told to the underlings.

Realize I've spent most of my life in Fort. 500's and seen the fads come and go. Six Sigma to Matrix organizations, etc.

Personally mega-rich doesn't really interest me nearly so much as getting to my personal ideal of freedom, without compromises.

That ideal is, "An upper middle class lifestyle without having to work."

In other words a self sustaining cash flow sufficient to live well, provide for your favorite lady and kids... and have time freedom to pursue your own interests unfettered.

I don't think that's greedy. And I really believe we could engineer things so it could be reached at an earlier age by everyone.

I mean, consider this. The usual rhetoric is that productivity has increased many-fold. OK great, then why does it now take two incomes to buy a nice house, for 30 years... rather than one half of one income?

Could it be because the system is rigged by those at the top to funnel the benefits of the increased productivity upwards? While at the same time the cost of living relative to income continues to increase at a rate that salaries don't keep up with?

Personally I think so, as that is what I see whenever I look at anything financial, from salaries to interest rate changes to the Wall Street.

Sincerely,
AA

[AmericanAirlines]

Yes mark, I admit there are problems to resolve.

As for the neccesary work. Simple, everyone takes a turn for a period of thier lives. Medical problems excepted of course. Can't ask granny to toss boxes around on a loading doc.

The idea being to reduce the amount of life anyone spends working on the neccesities, thus freeing up the rest for higher (or lower) pursuits rather than wasting our lives making the rich richer.

Who decides. Everyone. True democracy. Everyone votes on every issue.

I agree, greed is a problem factor. As I've said in many places, everyone would have to come up a level in terms of thier thinking processes.

So true, capitalism is the best experiment to date for people as they are.

But, if everyone keeps thinking as they currently do, well then the current problems will continue. Simple as that.

Geez, the A-bomb has been around for half a century now. You'd think we'd all step back and realize it's time to manage the planet responsibly.

As for having already achieved Utopia... wake up, I mean seriously wake up. Ask the parent of any kid killed in an armed conflict if they believe that.

Anyway, bottom line is, we can do it. Truth is though, we won't until folks stop accepting the current dogma.

Sincerely,
AA

[AmericanAirlines]

Hi Roy,
Actually I tend to think Utopia would be where each person has his own little separate space and rules pretty much just say where one entity has crossed another.

In essence a complete power deadlock. No masters, no slaves.

Granted there are some details there to work out.

But it can be done.

Sincerely,
AA

P.S. It is *because* we are going to die that we should fix it. Life is short. Why not solve the problems so the remaining part can be enjoyed problem free?

[AmericanAirlines]

Well,
In a word, freedom. Freedom from the dictates and judgement of others. To own my own life totally and completely. No strings attached.

I don't loathe thier lifestyle situation.

Just that they continue to engineer things so it's not as easy for the rest of us to get there!

And of course no one enjoys being in second class citizen status. Which is essentially what working/middle class is.

Sincerely,
AA

[Roy Munson]

The reason why it takes two incomes to support a family can be summed up in one word, TAXES.

At the end of the year my wife and I pay half our income in federal, state, local, property, sales and corporate taxes that are passed on to us in the cost of goods sold.

Luckily online poker income is relatively easy to hide.

[eastbay]

[ QUOTE ]
Hi EastBay,
Well... much of what you say is true. And years ago at a teamwork get together for United Technologies (Circa 1994) I said that one ought to start at the bottom and work up to know the business inside and out. (Parallel to your soldier/general concept).

But, look at how it really goes (in business and even in the military). Shave @sses are at the top. That'd be academy grads in military and Harvard/Wharton/Yalies in Corp. USA.


[/ QUOTE ]

If you really believe that, there's your answer right there. Get the degree.

[ QUOTE ]

In corp. USA actually many top dogs are Mckinsey Consulting or Boston Consulting alumni. Both of which, of course, recruit from the Ivy League set. Heck McKinsey even has a Web Page aimed at recruiting just Harvard grads!

So working up is (IMHO) patented working class dogma. And a waste of one's life in most cases. To bad so many of us are taught that idea by working class adults around us when we are kids.

The point of my para-phrases is to point out that I'm not interested in political methodologies and game playing. To me the whole point of becoming rich is to never have to be a subordinate to anyone else's game. So if wanting to maintain one's dignity along the way is a red flag, Oh well... guess I'm out of luck there.


[/ QUOTE ]

Different people have different ideas about what constitutes maintenance of dignity. For some, pulling over for "the man" for a busted taillight is an insufferable indignity. I don't relate to that idea of "dignity."

I'm not saying you're at that end of the spectrum; just food for thought about what dignity is.

[ QUOTE ]

So essentially I threw those terms out to head off certain suggestions.

To me "teamwork" is a red flag. And truly false in corp. USA. After all salaries are not equal among team members nor are they adjusted on a team basis. Each paycheck is cut to an individual.


[/ QUOTE ]

And hopefully according to value of that individual.

[ QUOTE ]

"Teamwork" to me is something told to the underlings.

Realize I've spent most of my life in Fort. 500's and seen the fads come and go. Six Sigma to Matrix organizations, etc.

Personally mega-rich doesn't really interest me nearly so much as getting to my personal ideal of freedom, without compromises.

That ideal is, "An upper middle class lifestyle without having to work."


[/ QUOTE ]

Well I think that's nuts. Someone who doesn't work is a drain on a society and should be ashamed of themselves, IMO.

[ QUOTE ]

In other words a self sustaining cash flow sufficient to live well, provide for your favorite lady and kids... and have time freedom to pursue your own interests unfettered.


[/ QUOTE ]

Unrealistic, selfish pipe dream. You gotta give to get, or you're the one pulling a fast one. IMO.

[eastbay]

[ QUOTE ]
OK great, then why does it now take two incomes to buy a nice house, for 30 years... rather than one half of one income?

Could it be because the system is rigged by those at the top to funnel the benefits of the increased productivity upwards?


[/ QUOTE ]

More likely it's the usual principle of pricing at what the market will bear. And what the market will bear today is two-income price levels. I think that's pretty simple and pretty clear.