a draw to Nut flush- should i have stayed/ called

slydeni · #1 10-11-2005, 02:54 PM

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ Hero (10 handed) converter

MP3 ($46.65)
CO ($96.30)
Button ($46.25)
SB ($96.50)
Hero ($59.10)
UTG ($62.35)
UTG+1 ($43.55)
UTG+2 ($86.70)
MP1 ($51.80)
MP2 ($48.55)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $0.25.
UTG raises to $1, 5 folds, Button calls $1, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.50.

Flop: ($3.25) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $3.1, Button folds, Hero calls $3.10.

Turn: ($9.45) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $9, Hero calls $9.

River: ($27.45) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)

Final Pot: $27.45

New at table-- no reads yet. Did I make mistake of even being in this hand at river? and was my river call a donkey call? thanks for the thoughts... this transition from limit to NL is tough.

be well
sly

Kyriefurro · #2 10-11-2005, 03:10 PM

You didn't provide any sort of read on villain, however judging just from the way he played this hand, he's got at least an idea what pot-odds are all about.

UTG raised PF and lead both the flop and turn. I'm guessing he's got a largish PP. More importantly he bet enough on both streets that you don't have the odds to draw to your flush, and your overcard outs are tainted.

Unless I had a solid read that told me villain will let me stack him if my flush hits, I fold this on the flop.

Alternately, if I fell confident that villain tends to be weak tight, I raise the flop as a semi-bluff and take a free card on the turn. But if he calls and leads the turn again, I'm still done.

#3 10-11-2005, 03:13 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ Hero (10 handed) converter

MP3 ($46.65)
CO ($96.30)
Button ($46.25)
SB ($96.50)
Hero ($59.10)
UTG ($62.35)
UTG+1 ($43.55)
UTG+2 ($86.70)
MP1 ($51.80)
MP2 ($48.55)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $0.25.
UTG raises to $1, 5 folds, Button calls $1, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.50.

Flop: ($3.25) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $3.1, Button folds, Hero calls $3.10.

Turn: ($9.45) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $9, Hero calls $9.

River: ($27.45) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)

Final Pot: $27.45

New at table-- no reads yet. Did I make mistake of even being in this hand at river? and was my river call a donkey call? thanks for the thoughts... this transition from limit to NL is tough.

be well
sly

[/ QUOTE ]

I always have trouble justifying these plays...

Personally, I'd probably raise the flop here to about $7 or $8 and see what happens. To anyone else... is this a bad move OOP with 2 behind me?

Your pot odds are about 1:1 at the flop and turn, which is way out of the 1:3 - 1:4 needed for a flush draw, however you have similar decent sized stacks to get some implied odds out of it.

Also, the low paired flop helps your ace out a lot.

Other thoughts?

EDIT: Being out of position here, I'm thinking that betting the pot on the flop early is probably a good move.

wdeadwyler · #4 10-11-2005, 03:15 PM

Raise for free card wont work here since u are oop. I lead this flop myself and see what he does. If he raises big i fold, if small, I call and check to him on the turn. If he pots the turn im gone. There is no river action here, what happened?

amoeba · #5 10-11-2005, 03:21 PM

it was a minraise preflop.

depending on how often he was making this, I would consider reraising preflop.

on the flop, the paired boards sucks as if he has an overpair, you have 1 fewer out but I think standard play here is still bet/3bet all in.

wdeadwyler · #6 10-11-2005, 03:24 PM

I dont like bet 3bet here, i think you have very little fold equity.

amoeba · #7 10-11-2005, 03:25 PM

no, hes getting 2:1 on the flop and the turn. but this is assuming ace isn't an out and on the turn he picked up a 5 as an out.

amoeba · #8 10-11-2005, 03:26 PM

against what?

everything depends on villain's minraising range.

but if I reraised preflop, and bet 3bet push this flop, most guys fold everything except AA/KK, assuming he doesn't let you know by 3 betting himself preflop with those hands.

Kyriefurro · #9 10-11-2005, 03:33 PM

Yeah. Somehow I got my positions backwards and was thinking hero was last to act on this. I definately would have lead this flop if I was first to act.

slydeni · #10 10-11-2005, 04:17 PM

yah it seems like i should have bet the flop here. My thoughts were I was getting 2:1 on the flop, where I needed 4:1...my tainted ace counted for 1-1.5 outs, and i figured i could make the rest up in implied odds-- so thus my call on the flop. i guess this is ok reasoning to justify passive play--- but i do like the bet here to take initiative on the flop.

On the turn I picked up 4 more outs so I figured like 13 outs (8 diamonds, 4 fives, and 1.5 aces). with these and some pot odds i figured a call was correct. Is this fair reasoning?

The river:

I bet the pot (like $26) when the K of diamonds hit. WAS THIS BAD?
VILLAIN raised me allin (maybe $22 more)-- I called-- WAS THIS BAD??

Results coming soon...

sly