KQo Checkup

SippinSoma · #1 11-17-2005, 03:31 PM

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises, 3 folds, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (8 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, BB bets, Hero raises, Button calls, SB folds, BB calls.

Turn: (7 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, Button calls, BB folds.

River: (9 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, Button raises, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 12 BB

Standard right? What if villain is fishy? What if he's very good?

The_Curtain · #2 11-17-2005, 04:09 PM

While a read on villian would be helpful, I like all streets. I think the river is a bet - fold to raise, as this is a value bet if villian would call down with a lesser queen or a lower pair.

I think the villian is looking for an overcall from the BB on the turn. Unless the Button is really loose, the pre-flop and flop cold calls are a little alarming. Looks like a flush draw to me. I don't think you are beating anything but a bluff on a busted draw.

#3 11-17-2005, 06:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
While a read on villian would be helpful, I like all streets. I think the river is a bet - fold to raise, as this is a value bet if villian would call down with a lesser queen or a lower pair.

I think the villian is looking for an overcall from the BB on the turn. Unless the Button is really loose, the pre-flop and flop cold calls are a little alarming. Looks like a flush draw to me. I don't think you are beating anything but a bluff on a busted draw.

[/ QUOTE ]

agreed, and your opponent would have to be REALLY fishy if it was a busted draw that you were up against. I like all streets, although i may have check-called the river as most draws made it and top pair is vulnerable to a number of hands, but your still getting 11-1 if you check-call the river. If you are willing to sacrifice a big bet to find out where you are at on the river, you might as well show down for the same price, right

TaintedRogue · #4 11-17-2005, 08:10 PM

[ QUOTE ]
While a read on villian would be helpful, I like all streets. I think the river is a bet - fold to raise, as this is a value bet if villian would call down with a lesser queen or a lower pair.

I think the villian is looking for an overcall from the BB on the turn. Unless the Button is really loose, the pre-flop and flop cold calls are a little alarming. Looks like a flush draw to me. I don't think you are beating anything but a bluff on a busted draw.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you don't think he is beating anything but a bluff on a busted draw, why should he bet out? Why not use that bet to call with and preserve his chance of winning the pot? Are there that many holdings that his opponents could have that they would call his River bet with?

The Dude · #5 11-17-2005, 04:14 PM

River check-raises are never bluffs. Fold. Next hand.

FWIW, it looks like you opponent waited until the river to check-raise his flush. Although other hands are possible too (Q8, 88, etc.), that's his most likely hand.

JojoDiego · #6 11-17-2005, 04:27 PM

Dude, that wasn't a check-raise, just a regular old raise. Should he therefore make the call getting 12-1?

icepick · #7 11-17-2005, 04:34 PM

I limp KQo in EP in most cases.

Flop fine. Turn, I'm worried, but betting anyways.

River, I bet. FWIW, I call the raise.

SenecaJim · #8 11-17-2005, 04:51 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I limp KQo in EP in most cases.

Flop fine. Turn, I'm worried, but betting anyways.

River, I bet. FWIW, I call the raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

Forbillz · #9 11-17-2005, 04:40 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises, 3 folds, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (8 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, BB bets, Hero raises, Button calls, SB folds, BB calls.

Turn: (7 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, Button calls, BB folds.

River: (9 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, Button raises, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 12 BB

Standard right? What if villain is fishy? What if he's very good?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm mostly worried if this guy is a solid player. If he's solid, the turn call makes sense (looking for an overcall from BB). If he's less than solid (your words: fishy), I think I make this call. Poorer players aren't going to think "let me get that overcall", they're going to jump out of their seats about hitting their draw and try to jam the pot. I think a poorer player raises this turn. The fact that he didn't makes this river fold vs. call read-dependent, IMO.

#10 11-18-2005, 01:20 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises, 3 folds, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (8 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, BB bets, Hero raises, Button calls, SB folds, BB calls.

Turn: (7 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, Button calls, BB folds.

River: (9 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, Button raises, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 12 BB

Standard right? What if villain is fishy? What if he's very good?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm mostly worried if this guy is a solid player. If he's solid, the turn call makes sense (looking for an overcall from BB). If he's less than solid (your words: fishy), I think I make this call. Poorer players aren't going to think "let me get that overcall", they're going to jump out of their seats about hitting their draw and try to jam the pot. I think a poorer player raises this turn. The fact that he didn't makes this river fold vs. call read-dependent, IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]

How correct is Villain going for an overcall here with only one other opponent? Hero raised preflop and on the flop. Going for the turn overcall, why risk the BB not calling and losing us a BB? We're fairly certain Hero will call the raise with all the action he's given so far. Villain raising should gain an extra 1BB, while if the BB calls gives us the same 1BB. But if the BB folds we lose the 1BB.

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