BB flops str8 (but flush scary) in multiway pot...good time to C/R?

imported_smoove · #1 12-07-2005, 03:02 AM

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

MP1 is a LAG. MP3 and CO are both TAGs.

Preflop: Hero is BB with 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. CO posts a blind of $2.
UTG calls, 1 fold, MP1 calls, 1 fold, MP3 calls, CO (poster) checks, 1 fold, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (6 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG checks, MP1 checks, MP3 checks, CO bets, SB folds, Hero raises, UTG folds, MP1 calls, MP3 folds, CO calls.

So I wanted to protect my straight here. Edit: But looking at it now, aren't they getting 4.5:1 to call? Not sure this was the right thing to do.

Turn: (6 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, MP1 calls, CO folds.

River: (8 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, MP1 calls.

Final Pot: 10 BB

W. Deranged · #2 12-07-2005, 03:37 AM

Smoove,

Did you consider simply betting the flop?

Think about it this way: You have a straight, and the only hands that have any kind of outs against you (two pair, sets, and flush draws) aren't going anywhere. They are in fact going to give you tons of value-building action.

Check-raising should be considered for value , not for protection. You want tons of hands calling single bets as often as possible. Overcards, one pair hands, and so on are all drawing close to dead. If you could properly identify where a bet would come from, check-raising might be good (if, say, UTG raised and you figured he was very likely to follow through on the flop with a bet).

Here, though, you can't determine that. Since letting the flop check through is bad, and you'll get action by betting out, just bet out!

#3 12-07-2005, 03:43 AM

When I flop a straight in a six handed pot I like to lead into big fields. I dont like checking, since the flop could get checked around which would be a disaster, and if a late positon guy bets you really dont want to checkraise and force the whole field to call 2 small bets.

By betting this flop you encourage all kinds of hands to call drawing close to dead, like overcard draws, and one pair draws. This dead money is very valuable, and when you check this flop you risk losing all those loose flop calls if it gets checked around. So I think you should take the bet/3bet line in this situation.

I know there is no such thing as always or never in poker, but if you never slowplayed a straight in a 6 handed pot, you would be playing pretty close to an optimal strategy.

imported_smoove · #4 12-07-2005, 03:45 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Smoove,

Did you consider simply betting the flop?

Think about it this way: You have a straight, and the only hands that have any kind of outs against you (two pair, sets, and flush draws) aren't going anywhere. They are in fact going to give you tons of value-building action.

Check-raising should be considered for value , not for protection. You want tons of hands calling single bets as often as possible. Overcards, one pair hands, and so on are all drawing close to dead. If you could properly identify where a bet would come from, check-raising might be good (if, say, UTG raised and you figured he was very likely to follow through on the flop with a bet).

Here, though, you can't determine that. Since letting the flop check through is bad, and you'll get action by betting out, just bet out!

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. In fact, that's what I would normally do. I think a leak in my game over the last year is failing to use check raises to protect my vulnerable hands (as in, I never do it). So I reread that section of SSHE and have been keeping my eye open for good posts.... I didn't think in retrospect that this was a time I wanted to "protect," but wanted some feedback. Thanks! By the way, anyone know of a good thread on check raising the flop to protect or waiting until the turn to raise?

imported_smoove · #5 12-07-2005, 03:47 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I know there is no such thing as always or never in poker, but if you never slowplayed a straight in a 6 handed pot, you would be playing pretty close to an optimal strategy.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with that. I wasn't technically trying to slowplay here; this was a misguided attempt to "protect" my powerful hand that probably didn't need protecting.

goofball · #6 12-07-2005, 06:26 AM

big hand, multiway pot, just bet and raise at every oppurtunity, that includes betting the flop.

winky51 · #7 12-07-2005, 10:33 AM

Just bet out, draws are not betting here from fish most likely. I would actually delay about 5 seconds then bet. You might get some fool thinking your weak and raise it up on you. Especially since your the BB you can have any 2 cards. Maybe TP with questionable kicker. So someone with an A8 would raise or 2 pair obviously. Then you "pump it up mon".

Checking and having everyone check through just sucks. Also check raising might knock out some A4o or K6s hand. Those are REAL dogs to you so knocking them out would cost you money. The fish are plentiful at 2/4 and with a strong hand like this they are calling down with bottom pair and an over card. Hell they might even raise the turn if it hits thinking you have lower 2 pair.

Vs a crowed of fish I just bet until they tell me I am behind.