Whats the ruling ?

I guess what I miss in this is how can the guy count his chips infront of everyone and make a $1800 mistake. If you ask someone for a chip count, and watch him count, you usually have a idea the total. If he counted them in full view then the caller should of had a good idea what he had.
How many chips were being used and how piles were they in.

Outside of what I wrote, I would need more info to give a answer. I began to see the point that it was a crappy angle shot but would need more info.

[EStreet20]

No way. He asked for a count and the count was wrong. This is why in a casino you let the dealer count during an all-in situation. I think he should be able to fold his hand. However the chips should've been pulled into the pot before they turned over their hands. Thus he would've seen the discrepency and wouldn't be accused of angle shooting, but rather given an opportunity to call or fold once more, for the proper amount. In my game we simply have the person next to the player who goes all in do a recount to make sure there is an accurate count.

Good luck,
Matt

[Scotty O]

[ QUOTE ]
No way. He asked for a count and the count was wrong. This is why in a casino you let the dealer count during an all-in situation. I think he should be able to fold his hand. However the chips should've been pulled into the pot before they turned over their hands. Thus he would've seen the discrepency and wouldn't be accused of angle shooting, but rather given an opportunity to call or fold once more, for the proper amount. In my game we simply have the person next to the player who goes all in do a recount to make sure there is an accurate count.

Good luck,
Matt

[/ QUOTE ]

Totally agree. He should be able to fold his hand and pull hischips back. Gross mis-information!

I wonder why everyone thinks that UTG is the one pulling the angle-shot. I would guess that, if BB had AA instead of 77, or if UTG didn't have KK, BB wouldn't be the one complaining about the size of the bet.

The common sense thing to do (though not exactly in line with Robert's Rules) is make BB's bet $2000. Reason? He asked for a count and was told $2000. IMO, BB called a $2000 bet. To rule otherwise is to reward BB, who seems to be more upset that he's an 80/20 dog.

gusmahler
You raise a good point. If the BB asked for a chip count and was told 2000 and he called, then he only called the 2000. Be intersting what the other guys post on this.

[SoloAJ]

[ QUOTE ]
I wonder why everyone thinks that UTG is the one pulling the angle-shot. I would guess that, if BB had AA instead of 77, or if UTG didn't have KK, BB wouldn't be the one complaining about the size of the bet.

The common sense thing to do (though not exactly in line with Robert's Rules) is make BB's bet $2000. Reason? He asked for a count and was told $2000. IMO, BB called a $2000 bet. To rule otherwise is to reward BB, who seems to be more upset that he's an 80/20 dog.

[/ QUOTE ]

How does this not seem liek an angle shot from UTG to you? He "miscounted" for nearly double his chips. I still think he is WANTING a call there, obviously. So he probably was counting lower to induce the call. And you ARE right...if BB had AA, then the UTG would complain, but guess what...that is because his angleshot failed.

This is a 2,000 hand played as it is allin. And while we don't really know stacks, I have trouble believing the BB with 77 says he wouldnt have called the 3800 but would call the 2000. He had a read, and missed....So yes, he is playing slimy too imo. Is it possible they both angle shot? (Maybe 77 guy noticed KK guy had more, but would wait to say anything until after he won the hand)

People have no class anymore.

You're probably right, they're both shooting an angle.

That's why treating it as a $2000 bet is the fairest solution. UTG doesn't get the advantage of having BB's extra $1800. And BB doesn't get the benefit of having his $2000 handed back to him after finding out he's a huge underdog.