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#1
11-27-2005, 11:34 AM
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Re: What percent of onliner poker players are profitable?
An writer on ESPN.com wrote a few months back that two of the major pokersites track player profitability. Both sites report that approximately 7% of their players are profitable.
This number includes those that are profitable even by the slimmest of margins. The total number of players who are significantly profitable would even be less. 
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#3
11-27-2005, 12:43 PM
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Re: What percent of onliner poker players are profitable?
I don't have a link to the article. I believe it was written by Jay Lovinger back in the summer. This topic wasn't the focus of the article it was just mentioned in a short passage.
He was writing about his WSOP experiences and came upon some representatives from poker sites that were exhibitors at the tournament. He did not disclose the sites but did say that they were two of the larger rooms. The 7% figure is slightly higher than what Mason Malmuth has written previously as to the percentage of profitable players. I would assume that the lower rake and lack of tipping on line would make up some of this difference.
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#4
11-27-2005, 01:47 PM
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Re: What percent of onliner poker players are profitable?
What would be interesting would be to know if this 7% includes or excludes income from bonuses/rakeback.
I wouldn't find it surprising for example if up to 14% of players were increasing their bankrolls by playing but of these only half were winners without the 'assistance' of bonuses/rb..
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#5
11-27-2005, 05:10 PM
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Re: What percent of onliner poker players are profitable?
the problem with the 7% figure is that it probably takes into account people who deposit $50, lose it, then quit. of players who play frequently, a much higher percentage must be winners.
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#6
11-27-2005, 05:26 PM
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Re: What percent of onliner poker players are profitable?
[ QUOTE ]
the problem with the 7% figure is that it probably takes into account people who deposit $50, lose it, then quit. of players who play frequently, a much higher percentage must be winners. [/ QUOTE ] Bingo. How do you define a "loser" at poker? What about the guys that win $2.50 in a 3,000 player freeroll, then bust out at the penny tables? Does that count as one "loser"? How about my buddy that has probably two dozen accounts at the various online sites, that he used to bonus whore - but since he only regularly plays on one or two accounts, does he then count as 2 "winners" and 22 "losers"? What about the guy that gets $50 free, runs it up to $200, and then cashes out to never play again? Is he a "winner"?
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#7
11-27-2005, 05:37 PM
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Re: What percent of onliner poker players are profitable?
[ QUOTE ]
the problem with the 7% figure is that it probably takes into account people who deposit $50, lose it, then quit. of players who play frequently, a much higher percentage must be winners. [/ QUOTE ] The primary reason why the poker room quoted numbers are so low, is because of MTT players, which account for a sizable chunk of the player population. The percentage of ring game winners is higher, and I support the position of the dataminers that roughly 40% of ring game players are winners, though many only marginally. In the grand scheme of things, not even 1% of the player population would be considered high volume, and most are here on these forums! (...and a very high percentage of long term active posters here are winners)
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#8
11-27-2005, 06:02 PM
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Re: What percent of onliner poker players are profitable?
And all this begs the question of whoring. Since I got serious about poker (2+ years ago) I have played virtually no hands of poker that weren't being subsidized by bonus, prop payment, or rakeback (I have not kept great stats on this, but I estimate that about 50% of my profit is bonus cash). I'm sure many others are the same. Is a player who loses a bit at the tables and yet comes out ahead because of bonuses a winning or losing player?
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#9
11-27-2005, 06:18 PM
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Re: What percent of onliner poker players are profitable?
[ QUOTE ]
Is a player who loses a bit at the tables and yet comes out ahead because of bonuses a winning or losing player? [/ QUOTE ] Since the poker sites are aware of bonuses, it is certainly factored into the 7-8%. Keep in mind, that less than 4% (but growing) of players have rakeback. Clearly bonuses and rakeback combined turn a few marginal losers, into marginal winers. But, in the grand scheme of things, these numbers are small.
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