($33) neg ROI help continued: QQ w/ Kxx

***** Hand History for Game 3214107682 *****
NL Texas Hold'em $30 Buy-in + $3 Entry Fee Trny:18345648 Level:1 Blinds(10/15) - Saturday, December 17, 00:07:44 EDT 2005
Table Table 67275 (Real Money)
Seat 6 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 1: zutang ( $650 )
Seat 2: gracepeters ( $600 )
Seat 3: Flip_Dog ( $1605 )
Seat 4: Bigbucks77 ( $775 )
Seat 6: GSTUNA ( $1345 )
Seat 7: Coldhand_Bob ( $430 )
Seat 8: cs15002 ( $770 )
Seat 9: Bazuulbazuul ( $775 )
Seat 10: Bigtime1977 ( $1050 )
Trny:18345648 Level:1
Blinds(10/15)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Bazuulbazuul [ Qh Qd ]
Bazuulbazuul raises [60].
Bigtime1977 folds.
zutang folds.
gracepeters calls [60].
Flip_Dog folds.
Bigbucks77 folds.
GSTUNA calls [60].
Coldhand_Bob folds.
cs15002 folds.
** Dealing Flop ** [ 6d, Kh, Th ]
Bazuulbazuul bets [125].
gracepeters calls [125].
GSTUNA folds.
** Dealing Turn ** [ 8s ]
Bazuulbazuul checks.
gracepeters is all-In [415]
Bazuulbazuul folds.
gracepeters does not show cards.
gracepeters wins 870 chips


This is standard, right? Does my short stack come into consideration?

[splashpot]

I tend to raise a little more than that preflop. Like 75. But it's not a big deal.

OK I'm confused... today in a couple seperate threads I've been told that 60 is 4x the BB and is too much, I should only raise 3x the BB to 45. Now I'm hearing from splashpot that it should be 5x? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

I'd tend to put more weight on splashpots recommendations than many other posters, but could use a little clarification on this issue. Or is it just a style thing?

[splashpot]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd tend to put more weight on splashpots recommendations than many other posters

[/ QUOTE ]
Lol. I'm flattered, but I don't know if that's always a good idea.

I don't really use any "standard raise". Style probably has a lot to do with it. And + or - 15 chips really isn't going to matter much at all. I just like raising 75 here because you're in early position and you'll be out of position on the flop. If I had KK late position, folded to me, I would raise less. Depends on your cards a lot.

OK maybe I should've said..

[ QUOTE ]

I'd tend to put more weight on splashpots recommendations than many other random posters,

[/ QUOTE ]
[img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Seriously though, respect.

[Mr_J]

I tend to raise QQ to 90 at each of the first 3 levels, and up it a little bit if there are limpers.

3x is pretty bad for levels 1&2 since stacks will be quite deep, and you want to charge them for entering the pot. The more you bet preflop, the larger the mistake they make by calling, and the lower the implied odds they have.

Raising to 90 will get as many calls as raising to 60.

Thanks Mr_J, I'll give that a shot.

[splashpot]

[ QUOTE ]
OK maybe I should've said..

[ QUOTE ]

I'd tend to put more weight on splashpots recommendations than many other random posters,

[/ QUOTE ]
[img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Seriously though, respect.

[/ QUOTE ]
Makes me wonder....if I went to the small stakes no limit ring forum (or some other form of poker that I suck at) and started giving random advice, would I get a lot credit since I have 2200 posts?

I should try this out....lol.

[ilya]

I dunno why everyone in this thread is talking about preflop. The flop and turn are much more interesting & important IMO. That said I'm not sure what you should do.

One thought is to make a bigger bet on the flop to encourage your opponents to fold a Ten and to tip their hand if they have a King. If you bet 180, I think the shortish guy in the middle is more likely to decide that there's enough in there for him if he does indeed have a King. You also look more committed when you bet more so it's harder for your opponents to bluff/semi-bluff raise you.

The way you played it I think you have to give serious thought to calling the turn. You weakish flop bet combined with the turn check really don't look like a King, and your short-stacked opponent really needs this huge (relative to his stack) pot. I think he probably has a King but he might also be making a move with something like AT or JJ, and you are getting a bit better than 2:1.

I think a big problem in general is that when you bet the flop you will often be beat when you're called, but you will also often be called by a weaker made hand or a draw. Yet you can't really bet again on the turn unless you catch a Queen or maybe a heart/straight draw, and when you check the turn, you tip your weakness, give free cards to draws, and encourage a weaker hand to take a shot at you when you probably can't call.

Perhaps it is better to cut your losses on the flop and check/fold? If it is checked around, you can bet the turn. draws will have harder time calling, and your opponents won't necessarily know you're weak as you might have been going for a c-r on the flop. yes it's not a great flop for a c-r but many of your opponents will still go for one on a flop like this, so since people generally think other people play like them, they won't discount this possibility as much as you might.

[splashpot]

I personally like the way he played post flop. But I'm not always right, lol.

The pot is ~200 if I counted correctly. So I'd bet 125-150 (again, not a huge deal). And then fold if I don't win it right there.