Betting turn hoping to get raised.

akvsaq · #1 06-29-2005, 03:16 AM

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises, MP1 calls, 1 fold, MP3 calls, CO 3-bets, 2 folds, BB calls, Hero caps, MP1 calls, MP3 calls, CO calls, BB calls.

Flop: (20.50 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, MP1 raises, MP3 calls, CO calls, BB folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (14.25 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero bets, MP1 calls, MP3 calls, CO folds.

River: (17.25 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets, MP3 calls, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 20.25 BB

Was it correct strategy to do what I just did? A 3 bet on flop will not get anybody out. I bet into the raiser hoping he would raise. What do you guys think?

thirddan · #2 06-29-2005, 03:58 AM

why did you check the river?

Nick C · #3 06-29-2005, 04:04 AM

I used to do this more than I do now.

One thing I've learned is that the stop-n-go freezes people up sometimes (as, to some extent, the bigger bets on the turn and river do in general), so when I do get raised again, I'm very frequently drawing.

I'd probably just 3-bet the flop. Sometimes people worry more about getting trapped in a raising war between two big hands than they worry about the immediate odds they're getting. (Also, sometimes they peel on the flop and give up on the turn anyway.) All the same, MP1 may not cap unless he has you beat (a 3-bet by you does basically represent an overpair, especially in combination with your preflop cap, though something like A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] is certainly also possible), and I don't think anyone's folding for just one more flop bet.

Apparently no one made a flush on the turn, which is a relief after the cold-calls, and CO may in fact have folded because he thought you just made a flush.

I don't know what's best on the river. I'd be worried MP3 has KQ, so I can see why you checked. I probably would have bet, though. There is some chance MP3 won't even raise KQ, if he has it, fearing you already have a flush. But I'm pretty sure he'll bet it if checked to. Plus, I don't think we should assume MP3 has you beat, just because he's been doing a lot of calling and cold-calling and a straight-completing card hit. There are a lot of ways you could be behind, though, and I know that I have trouble folding an overpair in a pot his big, so the bet-call play I probably would have made could be inferior to your check-call. One factor is that MP1 may check with JT after you check, fearing that you plan to checkraise him or MP3 has him beat.

crunchy1 · #4 06-29-2005, 08:51 AM

Given the position of MP3/CO relative to the flop raiser you need to pump this for value on the flop after they call 2-cold. Then lead the turn.

jskills · #5 06-29-2005, 09:21 AM

3-bet the flop. Your hand still is still likely best here. Villan could be raising for a free card for the flush or OESD draw. No, he's not going away, but it is important to make it an expensive as possible for him to stay in the hand for the majority of times he does not hit his draw.

Villan had KQ huh?

akvsaq · #6 06-29-2005, 09:24 AM

Thanks guys, in retrospect, I think I made a mistake my not 3 betting the flop.

meep_42 · #7 06-29-2005, 09:28 AM

PF: Fine, easy.
Flop: Bet is good. Raising at this point would be for value, not for protection. You have no position on the raiser and you don't want to give a free card when going for a turn check-raise. The presence of a few cold-callers makes it more likely that there is a big draw out there (flush/OESD), so I think you need to get more money into this pot. It's generally my opinion that if you're going to lead the next street UI, you should put in the last raise on this street. Also, a turn bet will not get raised by a hand you can beat most of the time, especially on a spade.

Turn: Like I said, I like a bet out of position, especially since a flop raiser is more likely to check with the third flush card showing up and a couple of cold-callers.

River: I still like a bet, but a fold to a raise. KQ and the spade draw just got there, but it's still pretty likely that your aces are good.

I think you missed 1-2BB on this hand.

-d

Grease · #8 06-29-2005, 09:32 AM

I just 3-bet the flop, because your equity is through the roof. You have the top pair hand and the BD nut flush draw, and I don't see your equity changing much on the turn. 3-bet now and pump a huge pot you're likely to win.

Bet the river.

akvsaq · #9 06-29-2005, 09:34 AM

Thanks meep. I realize now I made a mistake of not 3 betting on the flop. I don't know what the hell was wrong with me because thats what I normally do.