TT w/ 2 overs

nokia1566 · #1 11-28-2005, 04:31 PM

No notes, 3rd hand of the session...

Ultimate Bet 30/60 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises, 4 folds, CO calls, Button 3-bets, 2 folds, Hero calls, CO calls.

Flop: (10.50 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, CO checks, Button bets, Hero raises, CO calls, Button calls.

Turn: (8.25 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, CO folds, Button calls.

River: (10.25 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button checks.

Final Pot: 10.25 BB

Standard TT hand? Wasn't sure of my turn play after the
CO called 2 cold on the flop...

Thanks.

Paluka · #2 11-28-2005, 04:33 PM

I don't undestand the river check unless you were planning on folding if he bet.

KramerTM · #3 11-28-2005, 05:11 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I don't undestand the river check unless you were planning on folding if he bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

Induce a bluff from a whiffed AK with a lone diamond? I can't see Villain calling this river unless we are beat.

DcifrThs · #4 11-28-2005, 05:23 PM

i dont know why it hasn't been mentioned but i cap this preflop.

while unlikely, you may get rid of CO. you take control of the hand and get more money in with likelythe best of it. your position isn't great and you lose the ability to c'r the button on favorable flops. further, while you may check fold A/K high flops if you call, you may induce incorrect folds if you cap.

of the hands i cap in this spot, this is the lowest. so its close, but id think it would at least be mentioned. JJ is an cap for me and 99 is a call.

given the flop action and turn call i think a river bet is in order for a few reasons...first, a worse hand can still call. you gave the button 0% chance of having 77-99 and calling the river bet. people are agressive with those pairs on the button and given button's play its a definite possibility.

AK(w/ d) sometimes makes a crying call on the river. on average people are bad so you should probably bet when in doubt and there's value but its close.

now if you bet and get a fold you were clearly ahead b/c no better hand folds here imo. so thats a downside.

in terms of metagame, you will earn more calls when you take this line with a better hand and will likely get more action on other streets as well given the way opponents tend to interpret your tendencies based on this hand. you get the most out of this when you bet the river. since betting isn't bad here and is likely the best play, this metagame consideration simply pushes it further to the betting camp.

there's probably more but if i think of it i'll come back to it.

Barron

J_V · #5 11-28-2005, 05:29 PM

n/m

skp · #6 11-28-2005, 05:37 PM

Well, I am not too thrilled with your turn play either. The CO coldcalled two on a Qd5d6s board and here comes the Jd on the turn.

It has to concern you. The fact that you hold the Td should make betting that much more difficult.

I prolly check that turn and prolly checkfold to be honest.

So, I guess your way was better...heh

DcifrThs · #7 11-28-2005, 05:42 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Well, I am not too thrilled with your turn play either. The CO coldcalled two on a Qd5d6s board and here comes the Jd on the turn.

It has to concern you. The fact that you hold the Td should make betting that much more difficult.

I prolly check that turn and prolly checkfold to be honest.

So, I guess your way was better...heh

[/ QUOTE ]

i disagree. mucho respecto 4 u but i gotta disagree. betting this turn is better than checking it imo.

if you get raised you are still calling and have many outs a vast majority of the time. if you get called again you gain value even though its a bit less than idea (he has 77d/88d/99d which would be a huge value creation). if he calls the turn bet you may be looking at a hand with diamond and an overcard(s) outs. further, your hand has good showdown value and while the Jd isnt the best card, i still think a bet on the turn is best.

also, watch out for the "heh" police (aka astroglide...he's a mod now )

Barron

poker1O1 · #8 11-28-2005, 06:02 PM

What would be your line if Button raised the turn?

DcifrThs · #9 11-28-2005, 06:06 PM

[ QUOTE ]
What would be your line if Button raised the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

imo...call. bet river improved, check river UI and likely fold.

if raised on diamond river i actually think its a call sometimes.

Barron

skp · #10 11-28-2005, 07:16 PM

You may well be right. It's a tough spot that's for sure. hard to figure what hand the CO has that we beat on the turn. Even without the diamond turn, hero is not in great shape when CO coldcalls the flop raise. His most obvious hands then are either a Queen or a flush draw.

But i know what you are thinking in favor of a turn bet and I can't say that you are off. I may well be off.