Dear Christians: why doesn't god DO something?

[andyfox]

Here is what I said about the coup of 1917 and about Salazar:

"the Fatima apparitions were one of the factors that helped mobilize the public to support the military coup that ousted the anti-Catholic regime in 1917. In fact, when Antonio de Oliveira Salazar established his long-running fascist regime, he spelled out the recipe for maintaining a complacent Portuguese population as 'fado, Fatima and football'."

Were not the Fatima apparitions one of the factors that helped mobilize public support for the 1917 coup? Also, I did not mean to connect Salazar to the 1917 coup, but mentioned him to show the political value the Fatima apparitions could have had. [Perhaps instead of "In fact" I should have said "And."; I did say "when Salazar established . . . , implying that it was not 1917.] Is the quote I attributed to Salazar wrong?

[Peter666]

Yes, the books pointed out in your link are the books in question. It would be very difficult to find these in a Catholic bookstore, and definitely not in a "Christian" one ;-), so online is the best place to get them. These books were originally published in French and you can find all sorts of bibliographic information linking to other works too. Naturally, all the best works on Fatima were made in Europe. But these books are good ones for English readers. Volume 3 will be especially interesting to see the political wheeling and dealing in the Vatican.

To get the Vatican documents, I think you would have to consult the library of a major Catholic Seminary or University. I don't know where else to find them except at the Vatican itself.

As far as Salazar, Fatima would definitely have been a propaganda factor in the 1926 coup. But this is after the official inquiries by the Vatican in 1924. It would have looked very stupid to use it before then and then realize that the Vatican judges it as fake.

I am unaware of any evidence that would have made Fatima a major factor in the Pais coup in 1917. As I said, there were so many coups going on at that time, that probably no outside event could have a significant impact on the power struggles of the day.

[andyfox]

I ordered the two volumes. Pretty cheap for books of so many pages. I'll try to wade my way through them for documentation. If you are in possession of them, and know of particular pages or sections I should see, please let me know.

As we are the only two posting on this thread, it seems interst has waned. I'll send you a PM.

[Mr_J]

"But why doesn't god do something"

Because he doesn't exist. If I go around telling people I can walk on water they'll laugh at me, but they're perfectly willing to follow some nutjob from 2000 years ago.

Why does a christian god exist while a hindu, muslim, greek or roman god doesn't?? People *know* that the roman gods weren't real, so what makes the christian god so real? Why do people believe in him? Has he done anything to prove he exists? Who wrote the bible? What proof is there that it's not exaggerated or just a load of BS?

God doesn't exist. No god does. The only reason people believe in religion these days is because of tradition. Religion was either used as a tool to manipulate the people, to give people hope, and to explain things that people couldn't understand. For such smart beings the typical human is actually pretty foolish.

[NotReady]

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For such smart beings the typical human is actually pretty foolish


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You did get one thing right in all of this.

So you KNOW for a fact that a God doesn't exist? That's also foolish to say you know, and quite hypocritical.