KJo in the BB

[Entity]

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Entity, so was my original reasoning correct?

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But what I worry about is bloating the pot with an offsuit hand. People will have correct odds to call with gutshots on the flop almost definitely.

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It's correct but incomplete. Your biggest considerations should be position, equity gain/loss, and pot bloat, probably in that order. There has been much debate over whether raising AQo in this situation is correct; I'm usually not raising AJo or KQo here, but it does depend on my reads of the limpers. I'm rarely, if ever, raising ATo or worse.

[Jakesta]

I added some:

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I do raise AKs/AKo/AQs/AQo/KQs/KJs/QJs/QTs/JTs here, but I just complete check with AJo/KQo/KJo/ATo. Does this sound good?

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What I understand from this is that AQo has a big enough equity advantage preflop to make raising correct, even though you are out of position and you will be bloating the pot. But I should still be inclined to raise suited cards above ten hjere like KTs, because they give me another way to win. Good?

[Smasharoo]

Preflop life is more than equity, and when your edge over the field is a whopping 2%, pushing your "edge" really ain't all that hot, especially when you consider the difficulties presented in your postflop play due to that little "push."

Hence me qualifying it with "if you play well postflop".

It's clearly a lot easier to play than 66 or A5 postflop.

You're essentially saying that you wouldn't make a +EV play because...it's not easy?

I'm intrested in maximizing return not simplifying play.

You may have other priorites.

[Entity]

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Preflop life is more than equity, and when your edge over the field is a whopping 2%, pushing your "edge" really ain't all that hot, especially when you consider the difficulties presented in your postflop play due to that little "push."

Hence me qualifying it with "if you play well postflop".

It's clearly a lot easier to play than 66 or A5 postflop.

You're essentially saying that you wouldn't make a +EV play because...it's not easy?

I'm intrested in maximizing return not simplifying play.

You may have other priorites.

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I asked you a simple question: are you raising A5s here? You said that your priority is equity gain, not simplifying play. A5s is virtually the same as KJo here (I ran the sims, both are around 26.8% equity against the limpers I mentioned).

Rob

[Smasharoo]

I asked you a simple question: are you raising A5s here?

I asked you a simple one. Are you not making +EV plays pre-flop because it's too hard for you to deal with postflop?

[Smasharoo]

Oh while we're on the subject, I assume that your imaginary equity calculations include hands that we'd normally assume would be raised? AK/AA/ etc. etc.

Or do they take the fact that it's limped to you into account?

If they include hands that would normally be raised, clearly your equity is even higher that you indicate.

[Entity]

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Oh while we're on the subject, I assume that your imaginary equity calculations include hands that we'd normally assume would be raised? AK/AA/ etc. etc.

Or do they take the fact that it's limped to you into account?

If they include hands that would normally be raised, clearly your equity is even higher that you indicate.

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My equity calculations were being generous (as your average limpers are not 55-60% VPIP'ers) to compensate for the fact that I did not remove certain hands from the range. I can remove those hands if necessary and rerun the sims.

[Smasharoo]

My equity calculations were being generous (as your average limpers are not 55-60% VPIP'ers) to compensate for the fact that I did not remove certain hands from the range. I can remove those hands if necessary and rerun the sims.


Or I could throw darts at a dartboard with various equity percentages on it for an equal level of accuraccy.

Including hands that crush KJ which are normally raised is disingenous at best.

If you don't raise it because you find it easier to play that way, just say so.

There's not a good objective argument for checking.

[Entity]

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You're essentially saying that you wouldn't make a +EV play because...it's not easy?

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I'm saying I may not make a +EV play if it gives me a higher chance of making a much more +EV play later, and just as importantly, decreases my chances of making a -EV play later in the hand.

Rob

[Smasharoo]

I'm saying I may not make a +EV play if it gives me a higher chance of making a much more +EV play later, and just as importantly, decreases my chances of making a -EV play later in the hand.


Might be better to refine your postflop play so that you're not makig -EV plays because you raised when you were in a +EV situation pre-flop.