IMPORTANT ETHICAL STATEMENT-MUST READ

[ghettorat]

Let's start with I'm 29 and think I've got a decent head on my shoulders. First, Bigfishhead, you come across as paranoid. Second, with a little common decency there is no issue. For instance, apply the "Stripper Rule." You run into a stripper that you know, a) say hello, how are you? and move on or b) Tell her that the new glitter she was wearing really brings out her eyes on stage.

What it comes down to is use your head. Its all a matter of time and place. Don't go running up to someone you know casually and start telling them and a bunch of strangers about this horrible beat in last night's game. Say hi, see you around and save the poker talk for the poker room.

[GuyOnTilt]

Hey Fishhead,

Rules to follow when debating an issue:

1) Refrain from insulting the group you're trying to persuade or dissuade. Statements like "You dumbass!!!", "dipshit", your stupidity "boggles the mind", "KNOW IT ALL!!", and others that you seem to make a habit of using are only going to make people feel alienated from you and much less likely to buy into what you're trying to sell.

2) Make solid points for your argument. For example:

The funniest part about this is I learned this principle at age 10. Who taught me this? MY MOTHER who worked in the business. Why is it a 10 yr old can accept it so readily and y'all have such trouble with it?

Not only is this comment insulting and demeaning, but it's completely non-sensical. The fact that a 10 year old believes something doesn't make it right or mean that more intelligent people should have an easier time believing it. E.g. "Why is it a 10 year old can accept Santa Claus so readily and y'all have such trouble with it?"

3) Don't be condescending. Again, it'll alienate your audience.

4) Don't give the impression that their opinions are less valid than yours. If someone says something you don't agree with, the answer isn't to come back by calling them a dumbass or making some insulting statement like, "And exactly how long have you been in and around this business? For me it is only 35 years so maybe I dont have enuf experience to expound on such a topic." Instead, make a solid counterpoint that does not break any of the above rules.

FWIW, I don't see a problem with giving a simple "Hi" to someone that you recognize from a cardroom and would recognize you. I am sensitive to the fact that a great deal of people look down upon gambling though and while I'm not going to pretend I don't do it, I would respect someone's wishes who did for whatever reason.

GoT

[scrub]

[ QUOTE ]
must...not...be...an...ass...

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You don't think that there are a lot of people in this country who would think less of you if you told them you gambled in poker games involving thousands of dollars? You must not get out much, or must not percieve social situations well (this seems more likely based on many of your posts).

scrub

[bigfishead]

uh...B? Sorry I dont know any strippers.

[img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[bigfishead]

While I see and understand your point/s well put. Sorry I write from the hip and maybe this is a fault of mine in fact.
Why is it you would not include the quotes that pre-empted each comment? I took each one as a insult or a smart-assed remark and responded accordingly. You did a fine job of beating the [censored] out of me and the value of the statement in question in this regard tho.

Oh, and the point of a 10 yr old, is they are teachable still. Not for much longer, but still are. And a 10 yr old knows sincerity and when it's a real important thing when put to them properly also.


We tend to be on the same page. I did however feel it was an age old ethical point that I cannot recall seeing here on 2+2 in the last 7 years or so. I am not paranoid. It isnt about ME. What I dont get is that I brought the whole thing up to protect YOU(meaning all), the player. Yet I heard crap like "what is your problem" and that I am the one with issues etc.

And the total and complete ignorance of the POSSIBILITY that ones actions or comments outside of the poker community could hurt someone in a devastatingly manner, and even bear no responsibility for those comments or care whatsoever of the harm that could POSSIBLY be brought to another person.

Thats what sets me off with an attitude. Total lack of concern for others. Complete selfishness. In my most humble opinion, selfishness as well as ego is such a huge problem for the teen-20 something generations that I cant even describe how it makes me pity the very same generations.

Which brings to mind the word "CLASS". Maybe it is also about having some class and humility. Humility & class such as we have all seen Doyle have on the TV whether he won a pot or lost a pot. I have had the pleasure of seing it at the same table, as a dealer(sorry no BR to play that high!)on more than one occasion, in cash games. If there was a person or two I would want to emulate at the poker table it would be Doyle, Chip Reese, Bobby Baldwin, and Tommy Angelo.
They all conduct themselves in a manner above reproach and carry that away from the tables.

[Al_Capone_Junior]

al

[kevyk]

If he lives on the West Coast, the 1 pm East Coast games would be on at 10 am.

Not sure how many of those early games they show out there, but if I was a Californian with Sunday Ticket, I would never see the inside of a church.

[bernie]

I agree. Nice post.

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And exactly how long have you been in and around this business? For me it is only 35 years so maybe I dont have enuf experience to expound on such a topic."

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Don't we hear this enough from table coaches when we're playing? Usually the ones who believe it's not good to bet with a draw possible because you can lose on the end. I think their mothers taught them that.

b

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
Why is it you would not include the quotes that pre-empted each comment? I took each one as a insult or a smart-assed remark and responded accordingly

[/ QUOTE ]

All they did was disagree with you. Not insult you. I think you started down that line.

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What I dont get is that I brought the whole thing up to protect YOU(meaning all), the player.

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And you did it all the zeal of a southern baptist minister. 'If you don't 'believe' me, and see it may way, well you're damned!'

[ QUOTE ]
Thats what sets me off with an attitude. Total lack of concern for others. Complete selfishness. In my most humble opinion, selfishness as well as ego is such a huge problem for the teen-20 something generations that I cant even describe how it makes me pity the very same generations.


[/ QUOTE ]

You pity them, huh? Nice choice of words.

I think you represented this 'ego' and selfishness by your responses to responses from your original post. Someone asked if something happened to you personally. I got that impression before i read that response.

[ QUOTE ]
Which brings to mind the word "CLASS". Maybe it is also about having some class and humility.

[/ QUOTE ]

From your 2nd response that i read in this thread, maybe you could take a lesson in class and humility. Or is it only a 1 way street. You can insult, and continue to condescend (see the pity line above) and everyone else should bow down to you. Lead by example, as GoT suggested.

FWIW, i can also see your point. However, i can also see the points the others are making. I tend to fall more on their side. It's not 30 years ago. But it still can happen. Big deal. You said your piece, if someone doesn't agree, it doesn't make you a better human. Especially when you react the way you did.

Cya

b

[CountDuckula]

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Since when is it MY responsibility to break YOUR anonymity?

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Absolutely. There are a large number of people who think poker == gambling == degeneracy. And you can't convince them otherwise. I think that it's only common sense to let the other person decide whether the situation is such that poker can be freely discussed. In my case, I couldn't care less (I can't think of anyone in my life that I specifically would not want to know that I play; my wife and I go to casinos together, plus I have co-workers who also gamble, and nobody in our group makes a big deal of it), but I respect the fact that other people may feel differently. Especially if their boss/in-laws/spouse/whatever are uptight about gambling in any form.


[ QUOTE ]
BTW I only used the "Mormon Elder of the church" as a poor example. I have no idea if poker or gambling is looked upon poorly with Mormons. No harm was meant. FWIW...LV has a very high % of Mormons so I probably am full of shixt using that as an example.

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Couldn't resist commenting on this. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] I'm a former Mormon, and my wife is an active one, though very liberal about it. Her Bishop is utterly scandalized that she goes to casinos (he knows he ain't getting any traction with me! [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]); we've been to Foxwoods and AC several times in the past year, and are going to Vegas right after Christmas. He keeps trying to get her to pray about it and get that warm fuzzy feeling that tells her she shouldn't be doing that, but she isn't buying. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Mormonism does frown on gambling officially, but there are individuals who do it anyway. Such as my lovely wife. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

-Mike