10/20 AK preflop

[mikeyKay]

You dont own 25% of this pot pre flop? The only player you are worrying about is the 16/6 that 3-bet, I feel like the other 2 players could be all over the place. 2 out of the 3 opponents seem to be semi-bad to pretty bad players, I'm not looking for a reason to dump a solid starting hand. What am I missing here?

-mike

[Dazarath]

[ QUOTE ]
You dont own 25% of this pot pre flop? The only player you are worrying about is the 16/6 that 3-bet, I feel like the other 2 players could be all over the place. 2 out of the 3 opponents seem to be semi-bad to pretty bad players, I'm not looking for a reason to dump a solid starting hand. What am I missing here?

-mike

[/ QUOTE ]

You're missing the PFRs. Just because they're loose, that doesn't mean their raising ranges are out of whack. If a 90/1 raises (assuming the it's the top 1% of hands), you'd have to fold a lot more hands than if a 16/15 raised, even though the 1st player is obviously more of a donk than the 2nd (based purely on preflop numbers).

None of these players have a PFR that is very high at all, and people's 3-betting ranges are less than their raising ranges. Capping ranges get even smaller. If you call 4 cold with AK, you're basically praying that 2 of them have QQ-TT and you spike an A or a K. Then you have to take into account the times where one has AA/KK and you flop a nice TPTK, but are still miles behind.

[Entity]

I don't think folding this is standard. I think folding this and then calling Jason a nit for folding it is standard.

Rob

[Lost Wages]

I think that this is standard given the villians.

1) It is likely that some of your outs are are in another players hand.
2) A significant percentage of the time you are dominated.
3) A significant percentage of the time you are playing for half the pot.
4) You have reverse implied odds.

Lost Wages

[B Dids]

I want to know more about the players than just mined hands.

If that's all I got, I suppose it's a fold, but it's sure not one I'm good enough to make.

[Evan]

[ QUOTE ]
I want to know more about the players than just mined hands.

If that's all I got, I suppose it's a fold, but it's sure not one I'm good enough to make.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think you have to be a much, much better player to call than fold.

What do you want to know that stats don't tell you? How often someone checks the flop after they coldcap or something?

[B Dids]

Umm.. what they will cold cap with?

I got cold capped with 99 yesterday (and folded A8o preflop- go me!). If I know he'll do that, I might call.

My point regarding "goodness" was just that I tend to call in spots like this where I should fold. Nothing about postflop skill or anything.

[Chris Daddy Cool]

easy fold.

what do you do with QQ and JJ is more interesting imo.

[jason_t]

[ QUOTE ]
Umm.. what they will cold cap with?

[/ QUOTE ]

We will rarely have enough data, either from mining or from observation-based reads, to know the answer to this question and be able to make decisions based on it.

[poker1O1]

[ QUOTE ]
My personal opinion is that this is standard.

[/ QUOTE ]