#11
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Re: Capping With Jacks
Good point about the limp reraise from the button. I would put him on a broader range of hands, probably suited broadway cards. This might tilt my flop play to call, but I still wouldn't cap preflop, so it would be an easy fold on the flop.
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#12
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Re: Capping With Jacks
You're right about the reverse implied odds. You could be against a higher set, and you might hit your set and lose to a flush. There's def. some reverse implied odds. However, he's got a redraw against a flush, and some weird backdoor straight potential.
As for your second paragraph, I can't decipher it. However, I think the pot is big enough that it's still a call. |
#13
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Re: Capping With Jacks
[ QUOTE ]
I don't like the preflop cap. You said the limp reraiser was tight passive, so his play smells of KK or AA. [/ QUOTE ] For the most part, I think you will see this play much more often with something like 88,99, or TT then AA or KK. There is no reason to be deceptive in his position with AA or KK. But there is a reason to be crazy (he is playing party poker). Haupt_234 |
#14
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Re: Capping With Jacks
You think a tight passive player will limp-raise on a steal? that smells more like a big hand than a steal to me! Tight aggressive sure it is fishy, but tight passive... it is out of his norm... so either adjust your read and don't say you think he is tight passive, or play him like your read of his play would suggest! lol... If I really thought he was tight passive then I fold, otherwise if I really thought he was making a move I keep up the pressure after the flop by re-raising and see what he does. you definately don't call. Raise to put pressure on the other players and knock out a weak queen or an Ace who might be trying to stick around.
Anyone who wants to argue it is a good call should be arguing instead that it is better for you to raise. You showed strength on the flop keep showing strength. If he slows down you at the very least know you have live outs, and you might even get a chacne to win a significant pot for little more than your flop raise. -K_squared |
#15
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Re: Capping With Jacks
No weak queen is folding getting the odds of 8:1 (assuming hero raises the flop). Also, it is very, very unlikely he is ahead at this point. The original bettor isn't going to fold his K or Q.
Haupt_234 |
#16
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Re: Capping With Jacks
My read was:
[ QUOTE ] Only played a few hands against preflop limp-reraiser but so far he has been tight passive. [/ QUOTE ] No, I didn't think that he was on a steal. I thought that perhaps he was just an idiot who though something like; "Well, it's already 2 bets and I have the button so I might as well reraise". I don't have to be right all of the time. I have 3 other random limpers trapped those times I'm wrong. Lost Wages |
#17
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Re: Capping With Jacks
but if he was betting that 88 or 99 like you thought he might be would he then fold? I think he might.
And, I think there are lots of weak players out there who would fold a weak queen when they are facing two bets after having played a capped flop, not good ones, but lots nonetheless. Even some good players might if they thought they were drawing against a set or KQ or a larger Queen. 8:1 pot odds are good but not that good when you are in a pot that was capped pre-flop. -K_squared |
#18
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Re: Capping With Jacks
[ QUOTE ]
And a 2-outer on the turn lays ODDS of 1 to 22.5 and on the river it lays ODD of 1 to 22 the number changes because in one case you see an additional card. IT DOESN'T LAY ODDS of 1 to 23.5 but it is true that the chance of you hitting your card is 1/23.5... which is not the same thing, although you do derive one from the other. Correct me if I am wrong, but I just double checked the math on some scratch paper... -k_squared [/ QUOTE ] I think I understand what you're saying, and the reason I'm only calling it 23.5:1 (I didn't, but I agree) is because you fold the turn unimproved. That's just for the set. Personally, I'm calling again on the turn if I see a J or a non-diamond T, giving me 5 outs to stay in the hand. So I'm looking at 9.4:1 to call the flop. If the turn doesn't help, I fold to a bet. If I catch my turn card, my outs go up considerably...6 solid outs to the OESD, or 10 outs to the FH (although that has to be discounted for the possibility of a higher set); either way, the pot will be big enough to justify a turn call there. You don't raise the flop because Hero certainly needs to improve to win this hand, and you want the overcalls to keep the pot big enough to continue. Besides the high likelihood that he'll be 3-bet again if he raises. Nobody is arguing that the odds of Hero winning this hand aren't extremely remote. We're just saying that with the implied odds figured in (he can count on at least the PFLR calling down, possibly raising), he only has to back into a win about 4% of the time to make the flop call profitable. |
#19
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Re: Capping With Jacks
Don't get me wrong. I like the cap on the flop! I think you just needed to either decide whether he was playing passively or aggressively on that hand. If you think he was playing aggressively (and hence just raising to cap the flop without a legitimate hand) push back on the flop. If he was playing passively fold on the flop. I think your cap is good considering all the payers in the pot. You are getting great odds for a big pocket pair with all those loose passive players. I just don't like the flop play (hey I don't like my flop play a lot of the time either when I go back and watch it!!!).
-K_squared |
#20
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Re: Capping With Jacks
[ QUOTE ]
And, I think there are lots of weak players out there who would fold a weak queen when they are facing two bets after having played a capped flop [/ QUOTE ] I think most weak players will be more apt to call than to fold here. Especially since the pot is so big. Haupt_234 |
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