SSHE question

[spkid]

On pages 148-149 of SSHE, the example discusses whether or not a hand is strong enough to continue with after the flop.

At the top of page 149 Miller states, "for a five out draw you need the pot to lay about 8-to-1 to continue."

I am probably wrong (as my post flop game definetly needs alot of improvement...) but I thought that with 2 cards to come and a five out draw you only need about 4 to 1 to call.
I thought that it was 8 to 1 with only one card still to come.

Can anyone help me here?

Thanks to any responses.

[mwilli31]

Don't have the book in front of me, but I do have an odds chart. You are correct sir.

[Jordan Olsommer]

[ QUOTE ]
Don't have the book in front of me, but I do have an odds chart. You are correct sir.

[/ QUOTE ]

He's correct on the odds of hitting this five-out draw, but you may find that some opponents will be less than accomodating when it comes to letting you see fifth street for free.

[mwilli31]

[ QUOTE ]
He's correct on the odds of hitting this five-out draw, but you may find that some opponents will be less than accomodating when it comes to letting you see fifth street for free.

[/ QUOTE ]
Very good point. Forgot to mention that. My bad OP.

[spkid]

Hey! Thanks for the responses!

This brings me to my problem. I am good with odds on the turn. After all, I just check the odds and adjust for (implied odds) possible bets lost or won on the river.

But on the flop, I am lost. If my five out draw is good only when I get 4 to 1 and will not have to call a bet when missing my draw on the turn, how do I determine what odds ARE correct to call with my five out draw on the flop?

By the way, I know this is no easy answer. I'm just trying to get a better feel for this. Also, this post might belong somewhere else, but since the topic started here I figured I'd see where it goes.


Thanks

[Cooker]

I agree with most of what is below, but I would go further and say that for the most part you want to use the odds of hitting the next card for most draws. If you insist on using the 2 cards to come odds then you must include all future bets you are likely to put in as the bet since you are essentially deciding to see the river. If you will fold without correct odds to see the river on the turn, then you must use the odds of hitting the turn. There is one major exception. If there are 3 people that go to the river every hand then, on the flop you can take any 3 to 1 draw to hit by the river to the river with correct odds on all future bets as well as current bets, since you will get 3 to 1 on them. This happens most often with flush and straight draws, and often you should be betting and raising in these situations.

[kitaristi0]

TOP has a chapter on effective odds which i believe addresses your question.