PLO8 100 hand

Hi Guys, could you advise me on this hand. Not sure if I got lucky and won or played it right. Aces tend to blind my play. Background on the table. Table was fairly loose, only 3 players I really keep an eye on, the rest are super loose and aggressive and clueless. I know I’m a little clueless in this game but these guys were unbelievable.


***** Hand History for Game 3167087825 *****
$100 PL Omaha Hi/Lo - Thursday, December 08, 19:07:16 EDT 2005
Table Table 64713 (Real Money)
Seat 9 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 4: lavudbm ( $81.99 )
Seat 7: RexRazz ( $100 )
Seat 5: LeeLoo444 ( $138.69 )
Seat 2: gfair ( $91.33 )
Seat 6: hamysan ( $74.30 )
Seat 9: myranger ( $12.15 )
Seat 3: bookmoose ( $41.86 )
Seat 10: MotleyFool81 ( $100 )
Seat 8: game_of_luck ( $199.95 )
Seat 1: EyeSpitOnYou ( $100.35 )
MotleyFool81 posts small blind [$0.50].
EyeSpitOnYou posts big blind [$1].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to LeeLoo444 [ Ad Ah 7c 8c ]
gfair folds.
bookmoose folds.
lavudbm calls [$1].
LeeLoo444 calls [$1].


Normally I pot raise with any Aces but after reading the forum I thought well their not suited and the side cards sorta suck and my position isn't the best, and I realy don't have any low. Even thought about folding them but couldn't do it, so I limp.


RexRazz folds.
game_of_luck folds.
myranger folds.
MotleyFool81 calls [$0.50].
EyeSpitOnYou checks.
** Dealing Flop ** [ 9h, Ac, 4c ]
MotleyFool81 checks.
EyeSpitOnYou checks.
lavudbm checks.
LeeLoo444 bets [$3.80].


Well I floped my ace, but I don’t like the low board with the 4 nor the fact that the ace is suited but everybody checked so I pot it.


MotleyFool81 raises [$15.20].
EyeSpitOnYou folds.
lavudbm folds.
LeeLoo444 raises [$22.80].
MotleyFool81 raises [$68.40].
LeeLoo444 is all-In.
MotleyFool81 is all-In.


Well I guess here's the big question mark. I have no real low against a low board, I'm probably risking all my chips for half the pot and MotleyFool81 is a player I keep my eye on. My PTO database has him as a very strong consistant winning player in all categories in PLO8 100 with someone above 3,000 hands (excluding myself of course whom I know to be the strongest player [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]) Anyhow I know the board is low with wheel possibilities as well as a flush possible and that worries me but I thought I read on the forum here I'm still in good shape so I hammer back. I figure I have top set with a weak shot at a straight as well as a boat. Below are the results, was this correct or should I have just called. After seeing the turn I know both of us would have played it differently.


** Dealing Turn ** [ Jc ]
** Dealing River ** [ 4s ]
>You have options at Table 64699 (No DP) Table!.
MotleyFool81 shows [ Qd, 5s, 3h, 2d ] a pair of fours.
LeeLoo444 shows [ Ad, Ah, 7c, 8c ] a full house, Aces full of fours.
LeeLoo444 wins $38.69 from side pot #1 with a full house, Aces full of fours.
LeeLoo444 wins $199 from the main pot with a full house, Aces full of fours.
There was no qualifying low hand.
MotleyFool81 has left the table.

Should I have even played this hand. Any help is greatly apreciated.
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[Spladle Master]

You played this hand exactly how I would play it. I agree that you should not raise pre-flop due to the total [censored] cards that accompany your aces. However, if there is not a whole lot of pre-flop raising going on then I do not think limping is a bad play. My gut says that it is correct, especially against weak opposition.

Your play on the flop, I think, cannot be questioned. Do not forget that you have a flush draw to go with your top set.

[DrewOnTilt]

Since it's heads-up your flop line is probably good.

Let's have a look at the twodimes data on the flop:

Results:
Omaha Hi/Low 8-or-better: 820 enumerated boards containing Ac 4c 9h
cards scoop HIwin HIlos HItie LOwin LOlos LOtie EV
5s Qd 2d 3h 135 135 685 0 589 0 0 0.441
8c 7c Ad Ah 231 685 135 0 0 442 0 0.559

As you can see, you are pretty well ahead on this flop. You didn't raise preflop, so your opponent probably thinks that his ace outs are available.

I assumed that you were behind when reading the hand. If the villain had a better flush draw with his low you're behind ~58/42... I think a call of his re-pot on the flop is always ok, but getting all-in depends upon your read of the villain's range of hands.

[Wolffink]

Twodimes suggests that even if Villain has a higher flush draw and low draw, Hero is STILL the favorite by 54: 45

If Villain has lower flush with an extra low card for counterfeit protection, doesn't change that much 59: 41 in Hero's favor.

However if the turn brings an 8d rainbow, Villain now becomes the favorite 53:46. With the higher flush, it'd be even more so. However if the turn is a high card, it really favors Hero now.

This is similar to a previous hand yesterday that I saw on this forum. Potting the flop isn't bad in cases like this. Hero is the favorite. But a case could be made to wait and see the turn. If it comes good for Hero, Pot it. If it doesn't, Hero can just call.

I think one disadvantage not usually mentioned in the two posts is that if you do go all-in, you give up the advantage of position. Since one card can change the evaluation of the hand so much (from being a favorite to being a dog) I think it's better to wait until the turn to pull the trigger when you may be an overriding favorite in the hand. What if the board say pairs high 9s? Put yourself in Villain's place out of position when a bad card comes? Does he fake having the full house and bet? Does he show weakness and check and let the pot get taken from him?

With the stack sizes, you're probably getting all-in no matter what. However what if both stacks were larger? Then I think the optimum play favors waiting until the turn more when you can put the hammer down being a big favorite or just call if it comes low. If it comes 3 to a wheel, you might even fold. You don't have the calling and folding possibilities of course if you go all-in on the flop. To be fair, Villain has the same possibilities but he's out of position. He's check-raised the flop showing great strength. Villain must be mentally-tough Phil Helmuth type of laydown player to be able to fold the turn even if it comes bad for him.




Omaha Hi/Low 8-or-better: 820 enumerated boards containing Ac 4c 9h
cards scoop HIwin HIlos HItie LOwin LOlos LOtie EV
8c 7c Ad Ah 288 580 240 0 141 328 0 0.549
As Jc 2c 3h 207 240 580 0 469 0 0 0.451