PLO8 $100 hand

[jthegreat]

Should I have just called the flop and waited for a good turn card to get aggressive? In general, I think the max raise on the flop is okay. It was just this specific case that Villian had the perfect hand to stack me with. If he hadn't had top two pair, it'd have been a much harder call for him. And of course he spikes his gutshot to win it all.

Just wondering if most of you call these flops before popping it on the turn.

** Game ID 603346922 starting - 2005-12-06 22:06:46
** Brave Starr [Omaha H/L] (0.50|1.00 Pot Limit - Cash Game) Real Money

- azmike22 sitting in seat 1 with $6.00
- raxe42 sitting in seat 2 with $100.17
- Maolinn sitting in seat 3 with $109.50
- GhostmanGB sitting in seat 4 with $104.40
- udomyex sitting in seat 5 with $130.25
- Kaspa sitting in seat 6 with $101.50
- val67 sitting in seat 7 with $11.85
- firedogpete sitting in seat 8 with $88.81 [Sitting out]
- Riverroe sitting in seat 9 with $118.86
- extremebleu sitting in seat 10 with $87.50 [Dealer]

azmike22 posted the small blind - $0.50
raxe42 posted the big blind - $1.00
** Dealing card to Maolinn: A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Maolinn called - $1.00
GhostmanGB called - $1.00
udomyex called - $1.00
Kaspa folded
val67 called - $1.00
Riverroe called - $1.00
extremebleu called - $1.00
azmike22 called - $1.00
raxe42 checked

** Dealing the flop: Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
azmike22 checked
raxe42 bet - $6.00
Maolinn raised - $26.00
GhostmanGB folded
udomyex folded
val67 folded
Riverroe folded
extremebleu folded
azmike22 folded
raxe42 called - $26.00

** Dealing the turn: 4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
raxe42 checked
Maolinn bet - $50.00
raxe42 went all-in - $74.17
Maolinn called - $74.17
raxe42 shows: 5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

** Dealing the river: J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
raxe42 wins $205.34 from the main pot

[Jorge10]

Well the problem is that there is only 1 turn card that wont scare him and thats a 9. If a 10, J, or K comes, he might not be so eager to bet out and if you jam he will probably fold. Also if the board pairs he might get away as well. I think you want to play it like you did. If you play it like you did, if the turn pairs or comes high, he will probably call you down as he called on the flop and feels pot committed.

The problems with waiting for the turn is that he has not put a decent amount of his stack into the pot and he can still get away. Also the pot isnt that big, unless he bets out on the turn, you wont be able to get a big portion of his stack in there before the river. You just got unlucky, not much else to say about that.

Aces are the trickiest set to play, because there are never any blanks on the turn, either a low gets there or a straight of some sort. I prefer jamming on the flop to build a pot so that if no low comes on the turn I can really jam and also the flop bet gets most straight draws out unless they got some sort of monster draw, but still most arent eager to chase with a 2 low card flop.

[xorbie]

What do you want? Villain played the hand fine, if I were him I might even push the flop, he has a really strong hand on this board given PF action.

Well played. It's very hard for him to win the high side, he needs a runner runner flush or a gut shot. The odds for not getting a low is much higher, it means you're a higher fav to scoop than he is. You were just unlucky, never wait for the turn if you could avoid it, if a low cards come you have no idea what you stand, you might getting freerolled. And there's a chance he'll get out if the board pairs. You're a 62% money fav according to twodimes.net calculator.

[jthegreat]

At the time, I had an urge to check behind on the turn, given that a low hand had possibly been made. If I'd checked behind, I could have checked behind or called a river bet. I'm thinking that's probably the best line in this situation where I have no low. I'll lose some when I'm dominating QQ with no low, but more often than not, once the low hits, I'm only playing for half the pot and need to limit the damage if I'm scooped.

That's why should try to get all the money (or at least the majority) in on the flop. Then you know you have made a good investment. 62% winning chance + dead money is a super deal!

[Wolffink]

I dont agree with the above posters who say pot the flop.

I say wait until the turn.

There's already a sizeable bet made. Call and see if other players follow. On the turn if it comes favorable pot it.

Although Hero is a favorite on the flop if the turn comes low, say a plain 8c, Hero becomes a dog. Then what do you do? The same arguments about getting away from the hand goes two ways when one card can drastically change the evaluation.

Also, waiting until the turn with two low cards when you have trips is the same POV that's recommended in SS2. I dont think potting the flop is bad, but waiting is better.

[ QUOTE ]
I dont agree with the above posters who say pot the flop.

I say wait until the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]
I agree this is best line. I don't always do it though.

[Wolffink]

I just happen to be reading a Ribbo hand on his website: ribbo.com he says something similar on his hand #3 (agreed 3 low cards had hit):


"I know its hard. But when you flop top set, there will be times you should fold it immediately. This is one of those times. Nobody raises preflop allowing the players to see a flop of A36. This is an easy check and fold for AA should the betting get frisky. But you see, people don't think like that. They get this idea into their head that they somehow have the best hand. They don't, not once low has hit.
........
Secondly you should be checking AA on that flop until the board pairs, at which point you can be aggressive with your raising, hoping to catch someone with a lower full house, two people with the same low or by making the low player fold his non nut low hand for fear of getting nothing. Get your money in while you have the best hand!"

So I think it is not so clear-cut to raise on the flop with two cards to come. I prefer raising on the turn with one card to come.

That's all sounds advice. With two-to-a-low, set of aces can raise sometimes. For example, I will usually do it if I have any low draw to go along, or if I'm short-stacked and so committed anyway. But generally, I think the best line w/ any set on a draw heavy flop is to lay in the weeds, and get active on safe turn.