Brand Spankin' New Glock 19

[djj6835]

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Finally, the number of incidents where the mere presence of a gun by the defender thwarted an attack is huge but not easily documented. Statistics abound showing that the number of CCW permit holders who commit a crime involving a gun are miniscule. FBI interviews of convicted felons suggest that criminals do indeed think about whether their potential victims are armed and they may change their criminal behavior accordingly. States with concealed carry laws continue to show a decrease in the rate of violent crime.

All of this information has been presented to you throughout this thread yet you continue to live in a state of denial or ignorance. I don't see why.

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I have explained my reasonong many times. It is everyone else that isn't listening. I don't consider a thwarted robbery a saved life. This is the basis of my stance. In the majority of cases where an attacker is deterred, it can't be proven that a life was safed as a result of the conclead weapon law. On the flip side, it can definitely be proven any time a concealed carrier is directly or indirectly responsible for an innocent death. I just don't see the reasoning behind turning every single robbery,mugging, etc. into a fire fight.

I also agreed that there is a chance that carrying a gun could make you safer. I'm not yet convinced of this however. I just think it makes everyone around you more unsafe. Considering I will never carry I gun, you can see why I have a problem with this.

[renodoc]

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I agreed that there is a chance that carrying a gun could make you safer. I'm not yet convinced of this however. I just think it makes everyone around you more unsafe. Considering I will never carry I gun, you can see why I have a problem with this.

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Could you ponder the possibility that a high number of CCW permit holders might provide you with a higher level of safety in your city or town? You "think" it makes everyone around you more unsafe. Many here, including myself, think we are safer.

If you also consider the difference between those who carry a gun without a permit and those that do, certainly you would rather have a higher percentage of legal, responsible gun owners out there rather than untrained, unlicensed individuals with unknown motives-- wouldn't you?

[djj6835]

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untrained, unlicensed individuals with unknown motives

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take out the unlicensed part and you could be talking about either a criminal or a person with a CCW permit.

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untrained, unlicensed individuals with unknown motives


take out the unlicensed part and you could be talking about either a criminal or a person with a CCW permit.

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This point you keep coming back to and I don't get it. Do you have experience with CCW holders who obtained their permit in order to do harm to another person or to commit a crime or some other "unknown" motive?

You keep harping on how a thwarted robbery isn't a good use of a firearm. How on earth do you know the robber's intentions? How do you know the armed "robber" will be content with your wallet and not want to ravage you wife and daughter and then kill you all? Again, again, again, others have posted that deadly force can't just be dealt out vigilante style which appears to be one of your main concerns. A CCW holder who uses deadly force in an inappropriate situation should be held fully accountable and punished accordingly. That said, most of us who have responded to you would rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

[djj6835]

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Again, again, again, others have posted that deadly force can't just be dealt out vigilante style which appears to be one of your main concerns

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That doesn't mean it won't happen. Ace posted ten examples of people using their guns, two of which were people acting as vigilantes. My main problem with every single person on this forum that is pro CCW is that you all seem way to trusting of other gun owners. You assume becuase you are responsible, other will also be just as responsible. This is a very dangerous assumption in my opinion. The fact still remains that we are putting guns in the hand of untrained citizens. Regardless of what you think, you can't say for sure what you or any of the other gun owner will actually do in the heat of the moment. I would assume not take the chance and just let the trained professionals handle this.

[BCPVP]

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My main problem with every single person on this forum that is pro CCW is that you all seem way to trusting of other gun owners.

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My main problem with you (and others may share it) is you have this inherent distrust of your fellow law-abiding citizen and feel that the gov't should strip them of a natural right of theirs.

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The fact still remains that we are putting guns in the hand of untrained citizens.

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And most statistics of CCW permit holders show that they're about as law-abiding as you can be. And many of those people who get those permits do become trained. Your criticisms are not founded upon reality, but your own biased (and false) opinions.

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I would assume not take the chance and just let the trained professionals handle this.

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What professionals? You think a police officer's gonna be right there when you're attacked? If you don't want to take a "chance" and hope a "professional" is right there when you or your family is attacked, that's your right. But who are you to tell people they can't defend themselves? What right do you have to strip people of their natural rights in the name of some demonstrably false goal of protecting the innocents from those wild CCW permit holders?