Did someone say don't lay down QQ preflop?

elonkra · #1 07-18-2005, 01:51 PM

UB $10 + $1 Turbo SNG

Flop_This is at seat 0 with 1830.
fatshady is at seat 1 with 1105.
 BigDrewMoney4 is at seat 2 with 1215. 
johnmatzke is at seat 3 with 1435.
 arknole is at seat 5 with 2375. 
EA2USN is at seat 6 with 2210.
orellshmoses is at seat 7 with 2010.
nakedjoker is at seat 8 with 1450.
 kingconk is at seat 9 with 1370. 
The button is at seat 2.

johnmatzke posts the small blind of 30.
 arknole posts the big blind of 60. 

Flop_This: -- --
fatshady: -- --
BigDrewMoney4: -- --
johnmatzke: -- --
 arknole: Qh Qs 
EA2USN: -- --
orellshmoses: -- --
nakedjoker: -- --
kingconk: -- --

Pre-flop:

EA2USN folds. orellshmoses folds. nakedjoker folds.
 kingconk raises to 210. Flop_This folds. fatshady
folds. BigDrewMoney4 re-raises to 720. johnmatzke
folds. arknole folds. kingconk re-raises to 1230.
 BigDrewMoney4 goes all-in for 1215. kingconk is
returned 15 (uncalled).

Tournament all-in showdown -- players show:

 BigDrewMoney4 shows Ac Ks.
kingconk shows Jc Js.


Flop (board: Kc 6c Qd):

(no action in this round)

Turn (board: Kc 6c Qd 8h):

(no action in this round)

River (board: Kc 6c Qd 8h 3c):

(no action in this round)

Showdown:

BigDrewMoney4 has Ac Ks Kc Qd 8h: a pair of kings.
kingconk has Jc Js Kc Qd 8h: a pair of jacks.

Hand #7163293-20 Summary:

No rake is taken for this hand.
 BigDrewMoney4 wins 2520 with a pair of kings.

Karak567 · #2 07-18-2005, 01:56 PM

Without looking at the results I say this fold is bad.

gildwulf · #3 07-18-2005, 01:57 PM

Yea, I did.

And showing me a HH where someone has kings isn't going to prove anything. I know people have kings here sometimes. People also have jacks here sometimes, as this guy just showed. People at the 10+1 people also have A9, TT, etc. here sometimes. It all comes down to how often a person has a given hand which is pretty much impossible to measure unless someone were to massively datamine each SNG level. So it's fairly subjective. Let's just say I would not lay QQ down in this situation and leave it at that.

elonkra · #4 07-18-2005, 01:58 PM

You call there everytime with that preflop action?

Not questioning your opinion, just wondering if I need to absolutely take the QQ preflop fold out of my game.

Phill S · #5 07-18-2005, 01:59 PM

Jesus. Why does this forum go through so many fads? To name 3 in the last 3 months we have the PVS, the stop and go (not for the first time i reckon) and calling Yugo gay.

Is this going to be the 4th fad here?

Ill say it once, QQ is a monster. Folding at $10-$30 games is just giving away money. The only exception is if its obvious your behind. These are few and far between. An early raise and a re-raise does not equal real monster hands. It indicated supposed monster hands, which is to say people are idiots and think KQ is worth a repop.

I fold QQ preflop exceptionally rarely in SnGs. Its like the deal with Helmuth, your folds look good when they work, but you give away a lot of value when they are timed wrong. SnGs dont have the length or depth required to do it profitably.

That is all.

Phill

11t · #6 07-18-2005, 01:59 PM

It takes more action than this for me to fold QQ preflop and this is a 10+1. You can never fold QQ preflop and be profitable playing at these levels.

adanthar · #7 07-18-2005, 01:59 PM

[ QUOTE ]
UB $10 + $1 Turbo SNG

[/ QUOTE ]

haha you probably folded the best hand

fake edit now that I have seen the results: yep

elonkra · #8 07-18-2005, 02:00 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Yea, I did.

And showing me a HH where someone has kings isn't going to prove anything. I know people have kings here sometimes. People also have jacks here sometimes, as this guy just showed. People at the 10+1 people also have A9, TT, etc. here sometimes. It all comes down to how often a person has a given hand which is pretty much impossible to measure unless someone were to massively datamine each SNG level. So it's fairly subjective. Let's just say I would not lay QQ down in this situation and leave it at that.

[/ QUOTE ]

You misread the HH. Villain had AK and caught a King. I was ahead preflop. My post supports yours--it doesn't call yours into question.

Phill S · #9 07-18-2005, 02:01 PM

[ QUOTE ]
You call there everytime with that preflop action?

Not questioning your opinion, just wondering if I need to absolutely take the QQ preflop fold out of my game.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your hand was ahead on every street. Yeah, id say that qualifys as bad in a SnG sense.

Phill

gildwulf · #10 07-18-2005, 02:01 PM

I think as someone playing at the 10+1s you don't have the poker ability to read someone's hand as well as the people at the 109s have, and people at the 109s will generally have much better hands going all-in preflop than people at the 10+1s. When I say don't fold QQ preflop, I mean that your default play should be calling here and you should be deviating from this play every once and a while when you have a very strong read (a super-tight 2+2er UTG raiser pushes your reraise at the 50s, for instance...I would lay QQ down here).