too aggressive here?

dark_horse · #1 03-21-2005, 01:57 PM

i bet the turn not thinking i could win it right there, but for value since i also picked up a gutshot in addition to my flushdraw and overcards. bad idea? BB was loose preflop and semi-aggressive postflop but didn't show down many hands. i figured it wasn't worth calling the river with king high even though the pot was a good size by this point.

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG+2 with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 1 fold, Hero raises, MP1 calls, 3 folds, Button calls, 1 fold, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (10.50 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
BB checks, UTG bets, Hero raises, MP1 folds, Button folds, BB 3-bets, UTG calls, Hero caps, BB calls, UTG calls.

Turn: (11.25 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets, BB calls, UTG calls.

River: (14.25 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB bets, UTG folds, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 15.25 BB

Entity · #2 03-21-2005, 01:59 PM

The turn bet sucks. There's no way you're winning this on the turn.

Rob

dark_horse · #3 03-21-2005, 02:04 PM

read my post again. i did it only for value, NOT because i thought i could win it right there. the question is, was that a bad "value" bet, based on the huge amount of outs i had (if my overcards were indeed live).

Entity · #4 03-21-2005, 02:05 PM

[ QUOTE ]
read my post again. i did it only for value, NOT because i thought i could win it right there. the question is, was that a bad "value" bet, based on the huge amount of outs i had (if my overcards were indeed live).

[/ QUOTE ]

You were check-3bet on the flop. How often do you think your overcards are live again? If I were to be super generous and give you 15 outs here -- and that's pretty generous, mind you, a turn bet is still -EV.

Rob

Thigh · #5 03-21-2005, 02:06 PM

I didn't like the cap on the flop. Maybe it's good, maybe not. I'm sure there'll be plenty who think it was good.

Since you're drawing to either a straight or a flush, I don't understand the turn bet. You got your free card, I think you should have taken it.

I hate to give up a big pot like this on the river. But in reality, you don't have anything. Then again, it looks like everyone was going for the flush draw here. I think BB might have tried to steal the pot.

dark_horse · #6 03-21-2005, 02:11 PM

can you really call with K high here? if i had A high i probably would have made the call. you're right, i didn't notice the flop check-3bet. the cap was bad, and i should have taken the free card on the turn. if i noticed the check-3bet, there's no way i'd consider my overcards to be live. guess i was getting tired!

Mister Z · #7 03-21-2005, 02:24 PM

On the flop the raise was good but capping the betting on overcards + 2nd nut flush draw is overly aggressive and has to be a -EV play. Leading the turn could have cost you another BB... good fold on the river.

KaiShin · #8 03-21-2005, 02:37 PM

Capping this flop and betting out on the turn is borderline maniac, IMO. After BB's CR you should have slowed way down.

BreakEven · #9 03-21-2005, 03:08 PM

Entity,

This type of situation is not uncommon....flush draw with a somewhat raggedy board but the BB play on the flop makes it interesting. I think I misplay these types of hands more often than not. What would you say about my proposed line for this?

FLOP - I value raise with the intent to call a re-raise by the orignal raiser with my K flush draw and BD str8 draw. I would call the re-raise from the BB (but don't like it [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]). The BB could easily have called a PF raise with any suited or pocket pair giving him a weak 2 pair or trips. TPGK is also a possibility but would BB check-raise this? I would be thinking that my flush draw is vulnerable to the BB who may fillup by the river.

TURN - I would check-call fearing a re-raise and I want to get to the river as cheaply as possible. I am not ahead.

RIVER - I would check-fold. If the flush hit without pairing the board, I would bet, raise, and cap paying the A flush if it's out there. If the flush hit but paired the board, I would bet and call a raise.

Is my thinking OK?

(Sorry darkhorse..don't mean to hijack your thread. I might also have played it similarly to you without having a leisurely amount of time to think about it.)

Entity · #10 03-21-2005, 03:09 PM

Because we have position, the cap on the flop isn't really that bad. Checking the turn, though, is the reward for that cap, and we should take it.

Rob