AK or AQ on a junk flop

[Basil]

Lets say I get AQ, and the flop is 9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
How do I play from here? If I'm UTG do I bet? If I check someone WILL bet forcing me to call or fold. If I call and the turn is T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], what do I do now? Fold?

Its easy to learn what hands to play to begin with, it's also pretty easy to know how to play if you flop something that fits your hand. But it's damn hard to learn how to play everything in between. That's where I'm losing most of my money at the moment.

[Basil]

Forgot to mention...

1.)Let's say I check the flop and the button bets.
2.)Lets assume I bet the flop and 3 limps in.

[AKQJ10]

[ QUOTE ]
Forgot to mention...

1.)Let's say I check the flop and the button bets.
2.)Lets assume I bet the flop and 3 limps in.
3.)WHETHER I'M TALKING ABOUT LIMIT OR NO-LIMIT HOLD 'EM

[/ QUOTE ]

Fixed your post.

I'd guess you're talking about NLHE, and if so you're discussing a subtlety that i don't yet have a feel for. With 3 limpers you've gotta figure someone got some piece of the flop, so you're probably best off check-folding unless they bet so little that it's in your interest to stay in in hopes of hitting an overcard.

With AK or AQ (except maybe in EP), your goal is to raise enough that you're not in a 4-handed pot. If you have 3 limpers, obviously you've failed to raise at all, much less the right amount to get 1 or at most 2 callers.

Just my understanding, I'm not really a NLHE player but trying to learn it.

[Basil]

Sorry, I actually meant fixed limit.

[TaoTe]

[ QUOTE ]
Lets say I get AQ, and the flop is 9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
How do I play from here? If I'm UTG do I bet? If I check someone WILL bet forcing me to call or fold. If I call and the turn is T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], what do I do now? Fold?

Its easy to learn what hands to play to begin with, it's also pretty easy to know how to play if you flop something that fits your hand. But it's damn hard to learn how to play everything in between. That's where I'm losing most of my money at the moment.

[/ QUOTE ]

Listen up my son, don't check! That's weak/tight play and you don't want to be in that category, do you? I seriously don't think I could check this hand even with several callers. Maybe I would in LHE but I'd need a good reason. So, in general if it's checked to you or you're first to act, load up your pistol and fire off a round.


More specifically: For NLHE, in a tournament I'd bet slightly over half the pot because it's key to risk the least amount to win the most amount. This flop will miss many hands. That's a play I make all day without any other circumstances. 90% of the time I'm in a pot and it's checked to me, I bet. If you get a call you have to use your poker skills. By that, I mean trying to figure out if the caller is on a draw and AK is still the best hand or they're calling with top pair or middle pair. If you've built up an image of a tight player than you need to utilize that and more observant players will see your PF raise and flop bet as representing a strong hand. Anyway, your in the pot so you have to figure out either a way to win it or lose as little as possible. Someone with a set or two pair is unlikely to give you a free card if they thought you were making a semi-bluff so someone with 22, 33, or 99, is going to let you know to get out of the hand. Against more than one caller I'd check/fold. With one caller I'd think they were on a flush draw so if a non-spade hits I'd make another bet on the turn. If a non-spade fell on the river I'd check/call most of the time. If an A falls I'd value bet because if someone was drawing to the nut flush and missed they just made a pair of aces and you're likely to get a call. If a K comes I'd check because no one is going to call with a worse hand. In a NL cash game the pressue isn't on to collect chips and not go bust so pot sized bets are good. Of course, it all depends on the circumstance.

I'd much rather let someone else deal with on how to play AK in LHE.

Good luck.

[SheridanCat]

Okay, so we're talking limit hold'em and the question is, "how do you play overcards after the flop?"

Ed Miller has a whole section on this topic in SSHE. The reason why he treats this so carefully is because much money is lost here both by continuing to play when you shouldn't and giving up when you shouldn't.

There's really too much in that section to summarize here, so if you have the book, look at that section. If you don't, get the book or at least go to the bookstore and read it there. But, really, you need to own the book.

The strength of your overcards are based on many things including your reads on your opponents and the coordination of the board. Here are some highlights Ed gives:

<ul type="square">[*]Overcards prefer ragged boards[*]Overcards prefer few opponents[*]Overcards are strengthened by backdoor draws[/list]
Also, your position will dictate how to you play out the hand. If you are on the button and all players check to you, you will often bet. If it comes to you bet and raised, you'll usually fold, etc. If you're first in, and you think your opponents missed (ragged board with few players) you can try betting and hope for folds. If you get a call, you may still have outs if you pair up.

This is a very complicated topic, so do read Miller's treatment if you can.

Regards,

T

[AKQJ10]

See also LHE:Flop:Two overcards