J6o -- turn decision

Nick C · #1 05-04-2005, 03:01 AM

Reads: The players at the table seem to be taking turns going on tilt -- including Hero, who has lost to 3-outers in both of by far the biggest pots he's played at the table to the same semi-maniac, who left the table almost immediately after trouncing Hero's AQs with his A9s with a turned aces over nines in a multiway pot that was capped preflop. (Undoubtedly, other people had outs too, but still . . .)

Spoiler: This hand contributed to the comeback that led to my ending up 3 BB's (woo hoo!) ahead for the session.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. CO posts a blind of $3.
3 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO (poster) checks, Button calls, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (6 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, MP2 checks, MP3 checks, CO checks, Button checks.

Turn: (3 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB bets . . .

Okay. My action. Now what do I do?

Pokey · #2 05-04-2005, 03:22 AM

Hero has a double gutshot with a six-way pot. We can safely assume that your J-high is no good, so you have to improve to win. Also, since another J puts a four-straight on the board, we can fairly safely rule out those three outs. With no real reason to fear the club flush overly, you can call this seven outs. That gives you about a 5.5-to-1 shot at a winning hand. The pot is currently sitting at 4 BBs with four players to act behind you. Nobody liked this hand on the flop; there's no reason to think you're going to get raised behind on this BS turn card. It's true that both of your straights would be one-card straights, but I'm thinking that you've got the pot odds to make a go of it. I certainly wouldn't raise here, though -- you really should welcome the overcalls in this small pot.

Call the turn and hope for your straight. Fold for one on the river unless you get a 7 or T; if you do, raise any bet if the river card is non-club, call otherwise.

Shillx · #3 05-04-2005, 03:23 AM

I'm drunk and busy, but I call this. Whatever you do...don't fold.

Nick C · #4 05-04-2005, 03:29 AM

[ QUOTE ]
With no real reason to fear the club flush overly, you can call this seven outs.

[/ QUOTE ]

Keep in mind that the flop got checked through. Also, I may not have the only jack (or six, for that matter, but someone holding a six [or jack] might [or might not, depending on the player] need another reason to call).

JeanieJ · #5 05-04-2005, 03:51 AM

Check/Call

You really don't want to be raised but I wouldn't fold either.

If someone DOES bet here they could be on a club draw so I'd play cautiously if the club happens to fall.

Nick C · #6 05-04-2005, 07:38 PM

By the time I was posting this hand, I had decided my turn call was too loose. But Shill says otherwise, so I'm bumping the thread.

Anyway, here's the whole hand:

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. CO posts a blind of $3.
3 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO (poster) checks, Button calls, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (6 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, MP2 checks, MP3 checks, CO checks, Button checks.

Turn: (3 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB bets, Hero calls, MP2 calls, MP3 folds, CO folds, Button folds.

River: (6 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, MP2 folds, SB calls.

Final Pot: 8 BB

When SB bet the turn, I spent nearly my entire allotted time trying to figure out what to do. I worried about a raise behind me, but I thought I'd regret folding if there were calls behind me instead. Finally, I gave up on figuring out what was best and called.

In retrospect, I do think that unless someone behind me had slowplayed the flop, the turn card wasn't that likely to improve someone to a raising hand. Also, someone with a jack quite likely would have a pair or an overcard to go with it and might've bet the flop. I don't know how much I need to worry about hands like A6; possibly that hand would fold to SB's turn bet anyway, though (but I don't think I should count on that). What I'm hoping for with a call is for people with hands that don't interfere with my outs to call as well. But this kind of situation, where I have two separate one-card straight draws, doesn't come up very much, and after the hand I began thinking my turn call had been too optimistic.

wrto4556 · #7 05-04-2005, 07:43 PM

I think the turn call is loose, too. You may count jacks as outs but the J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] could get you in trouble. Plus you have to worry about splits, slowplays, and bad odds.